autopaul

ok so i finnally found myself a gsl se rearend, got a great deal on it and the guy already did the work of cleaning and sandblasting it, and painting it, and put in energy suspension bushings,,

so now im gonna take it all apart again, replace a couple of bearings, get a panhard and 3rd link, possibly rebuild the lsd, and get the axles redrilled to 5 by 114.5 offset just enough so that i can use iether pattern when needed, and run t2 brakes...

im going to eventually be running pretty high hp on this rear, so is there anything i can do now to be sure its not gonna eat sh*#$%^t on me when i least want it to?

what else should i be doing while its apart besides changing the color from tractor red to something a bit cooler.. open to suggestions on color,

give me some creative ideas oh, im also going to be modifying the mounts a bit to allow fc suspension to work, ya, so anything you guys can think of that will make it last longer, look cooler, handle better, whatever you name it, i wanna make her right from the start, and not have to do much to it, after that,

thanks
Paul

brandizzle123

ahhh yes, the story of our lives

autopaul

haha, ill list my mods if you want, but thats now what the thread is about... im not too worried about it taking the power, it should be alright, cause the car is quite a bit lighter than stock, the suspension will be done so that wheelhop wont be an issue, and ill be running about 400-450hp when the motor is fully tuned, just getting things ready now, but ya, i say, eventually because its not now,

but i want to know what other have done besides a panhard and 3rd link, by the way can anyone measure thier panhard and 3rd link for me, i really dont have money to spend on those 2 things seeing as im already way overbudget for the rearend,,, and id wayy rather make them than buy an overpriced namebrand one, then pay for it to be shipped from somewhere in the states to here in canada,

thanks

Paul

brandizzle123

lemme guess? v8 swap?

z-beater

I am actually very interested in this thread. I have heard of modifications to the rear end that can be made...let me see if I can find the thread.

Z

z-beater

Dont know if this will help but it is worth a try.

https://www.rx7club.com/nw-rx-7-forum-33/plan-b-rearend-479023/

autopaul

hahah no,

i would never, pure 12a power, but comon guys, theres gotta be some sort of modification i can do to this rearend besides paint before i put it back in there, ok i guess , ill just have to give a few ideas that i came up with and you guys can tell me whether they are good or bad,

1. i want to grind off all of the points that i find no longer neccisary,
- the spring perches, because i wil be running coilovers i find them to be big bulky addition to unsprung wieght,
- the upper mounts for the top controll arms will be ground off, because i will be running a 3rd link instead of the crappy designed 4 link.
-same goes for the watts link mounts, because i want to run panhard i will no longer need these parts, all of them add to unsprung wieght,

2. new components,
- i thought about getting powerslot brakes, or rebuilding the calipers or both.
- brake proportioning valve? it used to have drum brakes and i know that ill be overbraking in the back if i dont get one, but should i get an adjustable one (which one) or can i find one that will work at my local wrecking yard, from an fc? (remember i plan to upgrade to t2 brakes in the future, so what would be the best option then,...
- bearings on the inside, which ones do i need, what ones wear out fastest, which ones will make it last longer, should i replace them all?

thats it for now, i will keep thinking of more ideas but give me some of yours.

z-beater

Did you read the entire thread. It talks about bracing.

"Thats true that is exactly what you said. I did weld a piece of angle iron from spring perch to spring perch over the top of the center housing."

Maybe we are just not on the same page?

steve84GS TII

The 12A isnt a huge torque monster,so internal mods shouldnt be a big deal.Even with a turbo,there isnt much displacement there,so lowend grunt and torque load just arent an issue.
Mainly, be sure all the bearings are good and the gear pattern/lash is within tolerance.I did nothing to my 100K old SE rearend except run Redline oil,and its held up to my ported,14psi turbo 13B for years with no complaints.Even with 245's out back Ive yet to twist an axle or pop a gearset.
Also,if you choose to not rebuild the LSD,its not too big a deal if your running a lot of power/torque.Our LSD design is such that the more power you feed it,the tighter it grips.This is because the clutch plates are loaded up by the input from the carrier pins,via ramped pressure rings.This means that even if the plates are worn and the cone springs dont apply much pressure at rest,once you apply some power,the ramped pressure rings will be forced to compress the clutch pack and make the diff "lock" up.My LSD is very tired and has nearly no free-wheeling drag when I jack up the rear,yet I can spin two legged donuts and lay it down under any circumstance when I apply power.

autopaul

cool. thats encouraging, this rearend has 200k or something like that, so i think its gonna at least need a few bearings to be sure, are is anyone running coilovers,

also is there someone who can measure the parts of thier 3rd link or panhard for me, its not like im gonna mass produce these items. i just cant afford them... the rod ends are expensive enough by themselves,

thats true steve84gstII, it is only a 12a. but when this motor goes who knows what kind of wankel im gonna swap in next...

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

i have been looking into this as well. i have an SA with a SE rearend. i have been devating a 13bt swap and ive been thinking about my rearend options.

steve- you say your rearend has held upto a 13bt for years. that shocks me. it seems to me everyone says the SE cant hold the power and you need a Ford or some other rearend. how much power was your 13b pushing? did you ever launch the car?

i was hoping someone would make stronger gears and axles for the SE rearend so we wouldnt have to go to an 8.8 or 9 and loose all the power due to the weight increase.

also, where can we aquire panhard bars and a 3 link for the SE rearend? thanks

steve84GS TII

I drive hard,but I dont abuse it.I run 245's out back but not DOT slicks or anything.Ive been to the track a few times,but I dont race on the street.However,Im hardly "nice" to it,she sees many full throttle jaunts just about everytime I drive....and its a daily driver.
Engine puts out around 300 crank HP.I attest my rearend's survival to a few things,not the least of which is a bit of turbo lag(TO4B), which limits the lowend torque(drivetrain killer).I also run Redline gear oil.The engine can easily overcome the 245's in 1st and 2nd,so that also takes a bit of load off the rearend.Heres the axles and R&P after 125K miles....100K in a stock SE and 25K in my car.


Here you can see the pins and ramped couplers of the LSD I ws mentioning.Get how it works?.....


No twists,no chunks,no nothing.The only reason I pulled it was because of a bearing that was getting louder.My latest 100K old SE pumpkin has been in for a year with the same axles and theres no problems.I think a lot of people who pop 1st gen rears either dont/didnt change the oil often enough and/or were pounding on them.Even an anemic 12A can load up thousands of lbs of torque on the rearend if you floor it and pop the clutch.Enough of that will kill any 25 year old 3rd member.When you have an underpowered car,its easy to beat on it for fun,not knowing your doing damage that might not manifest itself for a while.When you have a light,overpowered car,you have to use a little more finesse which helps with drivetrain longevity.Beat on it,and itll fail NOW,and possibly kill you.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

good to know. i think id stick with the SE rearend then and just be smart about it. i still wish that some company would make stronger components for the SE rearend, just incase. just out of curiousity, what were your times at the track steve? do you think the SE rearend could hold up to 400rwhp not on slicks? id like to be somewhere around 300-400rwhp and i dont know if id run DOT slicks or not, i doubt it though.

revv_head

man im devistated you said that

nathan

chuck8313BTSDS

http://www.rx7.org/jes/axles.html

try this link. This is what I was thinking of doing before I left the states.
The stock rear end WILL not hold up to 5000rpm or higher launches with BFG drags air at 15psi, hot. For everyday use, it's fine. Just ask me how I know.

chuck

steve84GS TII

Here we go again with RWHP......
If you want to make 400RWHP,your talking about nearly 500 crank HP.If you have the funds,***** and inclination to run a 500hp engine in a 2500lb first gen chassis,then you should already have the skills and fabrication ability to build and install a super fancy,take any abuse,no comprimises rearend.Not to mention the mods that the rest of the car is going to require.
I dont mean to be a dick,but what it comes down to is this.......if you have to ask if the stock rearend will hold up to 500 crank HP......then you shouldnt be driving a car with 500 crank HP.

And for the record,I ran 13.5s all day long with an 80K old junkyard S4 TII and a stock S5 turbo.Around 14psi,stock S4 ECU and 250 CRANK hp.I could have gone faster,but 205 street tires dont hook up well.I havent been to the track since going with the new streetported S5 engine and ECU,TO4B,245's and FMIC,but its around 300 crank HP now and Id guess mid 12's.Its the perfect streetcar, and Im not a big drag race fan anyways.
And In my opinion,RWHP is only relevent for bragging rights and such.Every car on the planet is rated at crank hp because thats how much power the engine is actually making.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

im not a big drag face fan either. i just want a fun, quick SA. i know id end up having to race my buddies though so thats why i was curious about your launches. im more interested in curves than a straight line race. if i do decide to go turbo rather than high compression rotors, then i think id run low boost(8-10). i dont even know why i said that much power. if i ended up actually setting a goal for that then i would be shooting for an 8.8 rear.

autopaul

[QUOTE=steve84GS TII]Here we go again with RWHP......
If you want to make 400RWHP,your talking about nearly 500 crank HP.If you have the funds,***** and inclination to run a 500hp engine in a 2500lb first gen chassis,then you should already have the skills and fabrication ability to build and install a super fancy,take any abuse,no comprimises rearend.Not to mention the mods that the rest of the car is going to require.
I dont mean to be a dick,but what it comes down to is this.......if you have to ask if the stock rearend will hold up to 500 crank HP......then you shouldnt be driving a car with 500 crank HP."

I dont remeber anyone asking if the rearend will hold up to 500 crank hp, or mentioning that my car does or will have that much power, i just wanted to hear some original ideas about how other people have modified thier -se rearends, to ensure that it wont break down under track, or drag abuse, and to make them hand better, aka reduce unsprung wieght, or, install coilovers, or, run panhard, and tri-link, (still looking for dimensions on those) or run angle iron allong it to strengthen it or whatever... thanks.

im kinda scetchy about adding a piece of angle iron to the rearend to give it rigidity. ,my car is pretty light as it is, and theres not gonna be too much force on it to begin with, plus it doesnt seem like the idea is proven that well, and it seems there is some arguement on ways to weld the rearend without warping or hardening the metal making it brittle,

i really want to look more into the idea of putting coilovers on it, that way i can remove the spring perches, i know theres a company that does make coilovers for the fb (rear) , but i kinda wanted to order a complete set of fc coilovers, or tokicos, some kind of aftermarket unit, because im running an fc subframe up front, maybe someone has tried this already...

thanks guys, lets try and keep this thread on track, the input is great so far...

- Paul

autopaul

oh ya about the moser units, i wonder what theyd take (power wise) with a stock se pumpkin, i doubt you ever twist one of those axles, but for people who dont have the money or dont want to swap to miata torsen, for any reason, i wonder if our pumpkin would then be the weakest link and then start losing gears at the track... just a thought, cause its stated that the miata rear wont be good for drag applications, where your dropping the clutch,,

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

where do i see mroe about the moser axles? also id like info on where to buy, or any info, on the 3-link and panhard bars on the rearend. id also like to see how to maybe install some true coilovers, hopefully someone has done this before. thanks

steve84GS TII

True,the Torsen isnt the greatest or strongest in the world for drag or high torque loads.Personally I like the load biased clutch LSD we have now.
About the alxes,Id want the axles to be the weak link if your gonna keep the stock rearend.Break or twist an axle and its no big deal,pop it out,maybe flush out some debris and install a new axle.
With tougher axles,like Mosers,your next weak link is going to be somewhere inside the 3rd member....either a side gear,spider or the ring and pinion.Catastrophically blow one of those,especially at speed, and your gonna have differential soup in the rearend.More $$ and time to fix,if its fixable at all cause it could take the housing with it.......

autopaul

thats very true, i dont want my rearend lockin up when im going down the track, so i mayaswell just cleap up the stock axles for now, and i guess im just gonna get some fresh bearings, and brakes rebuild kit...

heres the best site ive found for pictures and stuff of tri link and panhard, as far as i can tell theyre built by that shop, now all i need is the measurements from someone,...

i think my never used but installed. eurothane bushing kit will be up for sale soon, because im going to be running, all rod ends,,

i also prefer the clutch type lsd, its probably more fun for going sideways anyways, and possibly stronger.. im not posetive but i think some miata guys may even swap these into thier pumpkins for drag racing, might have read it somewhere, might be crazy,

autopaul

ok, i thought of another way im gonna modify my se rearend, adjustable spring perches,!!!
because im going fc shocks, and i dont know how the length will be compared to fb, i was thinking about something like this, \

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=13043

(made by me) of course, that will bolt or weld to the existing mount and allow for more up down adjustment,

just another idea

1sgen

iTrader: (1)

but that will take us to the next question what rearend will you use if you have 500 hp and want a rearend that will hold the abuse but dont want to go with 9" ford?

steve84GS TII

Ford 8 or 8.8,lighter and more compact....and cheap/easy to find.

The 9 is very big and heavy.Really overkill for a rotary unless your running 800HP or more.......