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Received all my parts yesterday, should be installing this afternoon. Does anyone know if any of the parts need to be lubricated or greased? The idler arm is clearly greased, but it's not obvious on the other items.
Originally Posted by Gian
Sorry, I've been busy and didn't have time to post and most likely to late.
So, here we go. Rod ends are ok for the street. It's just they need to be looked at very often. Cleaned and lubed about once a month to be on the safe side.
I use them on my Mustang steering DD. After about a month (it had rained) they started to have a low mone when I would turn. I didn't have time, so I put it off for 3 weeks. It got worse. When I did look at the suspension (thought it was the ball joint), I found the rod ends were seized and started turning the bolts out.
No, not too late. I've ordered all my steering parts, but still have some thinking / research to do for the rest of the front suspension. I'm going to drive the car around after I get this done, and see what I think is the best idea.
I didn't know that rod ends needed maintenance, however it's something to consider. Although that does seem like an awful lot of maintenance. I guess it's not so bad if the gains are enough, but I dunno if I would notice / appreciate the difference over or against just doing polyurethane bushings.
Okay, so I got everything installed today. I think it took probably ~6 hours or so. The hardest thing to get off was the pitman arm, let it sit for about 4 hours in PB Blaster and then it came off pretty easy with the pitman arm puller, not too bad. Getting the center link back on the pitman arm once installed onto the sector shaft was a real pain though. The pitman arm didn't want to go on as "high" onto the sector shaft as it did before, but I think it's fine, got it torqued right, so should be good. This was my first time doing anything to steering components, so I'd say it went all right all things considered.
Subsequently took the car for a test drive, wow car is horribly out of alignment. I tried my best to make the tie rod ends match what we took off, but it's pretty bad. The car pulls hard to the left when the steering wheel is centered. I did try moving the steering wheel when installing the pitman arm onto the sector shaft with hopes of moving the splines to get it on easier, but nothing happened, so hopefully I didn't screw something up there. The steering feels like it has more "momentum" than before, as in it sometimes continues moving a bit after I stop moving the steering wheel, again I hope it's an alignment issue. The steering is very heavy especially at low speeds, but I think that was relatively expected. My understanding is that once everything breaks in it will be better. The tie rods are oozing grease (obviously they were lubricated), hope that's normal.
I feel like a bit of play was removed in doing this, nothing insane, but there wasn't much to begin with. I'm kind of tempted to adjust the steering box, to see if I can get the remaining play out, but I may be flying too close to the sun. Feels better, not rack and pinion, but better nonetheless. I'm hoping an alignment will fix all the issues I'm having now. Really hope I didn't screw anything up, since to be honest I have no idea what I'm doing
Last edited by hcaulfield57; 03-05-16 at 11:06 PM.
When I did this the steering was a bit heavy for awhile. I had replaced all the components with
moog including the tierod ends. All the moogs bits have grease fittings. I assume they were all
greased up. So then I went ahead and hit them with the grease gun and that seemed to help
a lot and make it smoother. Lesson is not to assume they put much grease in the new hardware.
When I did this the steering was a bit heavy for awhile. I had replaced all the components with
moog including the tierod ends. All the moogs bits have grease fittings. I assume they were all
greased up. So then I went ahead and hit them with the grease gun and that seemed to help
a lot and make it smoother. Lesson is not to assume they put much grease in the new hardware.
Where is the zerk fitting? It's pretty obvious on the idler arm, but I could not find one on the tie rods, what am I missing?
Where is the zerk fitting? It's pretty obvious on the idler arm, but I could not find one on the tie rods, what am I missing?
Theres a little hex screw on the bottom of the tierod ends. You remove that and then
put in the 90 degree zerk fitting that should be still in your empty box. Each end
should have had one in a plastic bag in the box.
Bought a grease gun today, and greased the tie rod ends and idler arm. There was already some grease coming out of them, but I put some more in, after about one pump I could see that the original grease was starting to come out, so I left it alone from there. I left the zerk fittings on the idler arm (since there was an exposed hole), but put the hex nut back on the tie rod ends.
Got an alignment today, car feels really fantastic. I'm very pleased with the way it turned out, the car feels really tight and great to drive. The steering is pretty tight and doesn't always want to completely self-center, but I think this is a result of breaking-in all the parts. There is very little play, almost none really. Thanks to everyone who helped, I really appreciate it!
On a side note, this did not solve the pulling problem during braking, so I'm going to replace my brake pads soon, maybe brake rotors and wheel bearings too, but I dunno about that yet.
Last edited by hcaulfield57; 03-09-16 at 12:20 AM.
I have T3 control arms on mine and love them. Cheaper than RB btw and come with like 1/2" of built in RCA.
Are these on a street car, and do you do any sort of lubrication / maintenance to them?
Originally Posted by t_g_farrell
The pulling can be caused by a few things:
1. Alignment
2. Air in one of the brake lines
3. Frozen caliper on one side
4. Brake fluid leaking from a caliper
I would bleed the brakes and see if that helps first. If not, then do a thorough brake job; new pads, rotors, calipers or rebuild them, lines etc.
I had a shop replace the brake fluid when I bought the car, but I'll check the things you mentioned and see if I can get to the bottom of this.
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Question, few things I've noticed as I've been driving the car: Steering is very tight so it doesn't self-center very freely (at least at low speeds). I made no adjustments to the box, so I assume it's just a result of new components? I'm willing to accept the lack of self-centering for the tightness it provides. While play has been reduced to almost none, there is still that loose dead spot in the center, makes straight line driving annoying because while the car tracks straight, everytime I hit a bump, my arm moves a tiny bit moving the steering wheel. If my hands are off the steering wheel, it doesn't move. Is that just the way these steering boxes are, or can it be adjusted out. Beyond that I'm very satisfied with the steering and was worth my time and money.
Question, few things I've noticed as I've been driving the car: Steering is very tight so it doesn't self-center very freely (at least at low speeds). I made no adjustments to the box, so I assume it's just a result of new components? I'm willing to accept the lack of self-centering for the tightness it provides. While play has been reduced to almost none, there is still that loose dead spot in the center, makes straight line driving annoying because while the car tracks straight, everytime I hit a bump, my arm moves a tiny bit moving the steering wheel. If my hands are off the steering wheel, it doesn't move. Is that just the way these steering boxes are, or can it be adjusted out. Beyond that I'm very satisfied with the steering and was worth my time and money.
The tightness will get better overtime, I had the same issue when I first did mine
with all new components. I suspect this is affecting the centering a bit but also
at low speed the centering may just not have enough enertia to work as well as
it does, say at 30 mph. The free play at dead center is normal but you can adjust
the steering box minimize it. Be warned that over tightening can lead to earlier
failure of the box.
The tightness will get better overtime, I had the same issue when I first did mine
with all new components. I suspect this is affecting the centering a bit but also
at low speed the centering may just not have enough enertia to work as well as
it does, say at 30 mph. The free play at dead center is normal but you can adjust
the steering box minimize it. Be warned that over tightening can lead to earlier
failure of the box.
Yea it may just be a speed issue, it's really not that big of a deal really, the tightness is welcome over looseness. I've thought about adjusting the steering box, but I'd really rather not do it incorrectly causing it to wear out thus effectively meaning I'd have to buy a new steering box. Seems a shame to ruin an otherwise good box. Also these boxes must wear out really fast if it's showing play after only 55,000 miles, unless it really does just need an adjustment.
Are these on a street car, and do you do any sort of lubrication / maintenance to them?
They are on a street driven car, and no maintenance whatsoever. They take a little time to get the alignment dialed in. After that you just dab some red locktite on the bolts and torque it all down. They Ride better than stock and are more responsive.
Update: well I've now purchased new wheel bearings (inner and outer along with the seals) along with other brake parts and we'll see what impact this makes on the steering. Someone suggested my snow tires may be what's causing my high-speed wander (car being squirrelly at high-way speeds), so we'll see if wheel bearings have any effect. I believe the steering linkages are now fully broken in, and the over-tight feeling is basically now gone. Basically the steering feels better everywhere with only slightly increased effort as far as I can tell. I have 14 mm of center-play, likely this is in the steering box from what I can tell. I'm going to leave the box alone since it's within the factory specifications.
I came to the conclusion that I'd really like rack and pinion steering, but doesn't seem like it's going to happen unless someone makes a kit sometime soon. I'm not interested in a FC subframe swap, as I want to keep the car stock aside from this. I'm thinking about learning to weld and fabricate my own things, so maybe this is a long term goal for me. Regardless the steering is noticeably better, and I'm pretty used to it by now. It doesn't really effect my driving, but boy I'd like a communicative rack and pinion setup, that would really transform the car. At the very least though, the steering adds some definite character to the car.
Will post what results I have after changing the wheel bearings.
I just recently replaced all front suspension bushings and tie rods on the whole front of the car. It makes a big difference, my car went from a crappy ride to smooth Cadillac ride. I had the exact same issues as you. Just replace all the bushings, all tie rods and wheel bearings and you will be good. For the lowering control arms buy new ones. I had try to have new ball joints pressed in and it cracked the lower control arm. I went to Mazdatrix to buy a new one and I was advised there that they should never be pressed in the whole lowering control arm should be replace.
I just recently replaced all front suspension bushings and tie rods on the whole front of the car. It makes a big difference, my car went from a crappy ride to smooth Cadillac ride. I had the exact same issues as you. Just replace all the bushings, all tie rods and wheel bearings and you will be good. For the lowering control arms buy new ones. I had try to have new ball joints pressed in and it cracked the lower control arm. I went to Mazdatrix to buy a new one and I was advised there that they should never be pressed in the whole lowering control arm should be replace.
Those are my plans, so far I've replaced all the steering linkages, the amount of play is okay, but the car still wanders a lot and there isn't a ton of steering feedback, so hopefully the other items will help here.
I received my new lower control arms from Mazdatrix in the mail today. I've also ordered the Energy Suspension bushings for the lower control arms. I'm wondering if it's worth the effort to remove the OEM bushings from the control arms and replace with the polyurethane bushings.
I bought them, so I'd like to use them, but I'm unsure how to remove the stock rubber bushings. Seems like I'd have to drill them out or something. From the picture of the Energy Suspension bushings it looks like they're two pieces so they should go in pretty easy I guess?
The LCA bushing should pop out fairly easily since its all brandy spanking new. I think its a 2
piece job as well. If all else fails, cut one end off and push it out.
Just finished doing complete suspension redo in my SE. LCA ball joints can be safely pressed out/new in. 4 small tack welds on each guarantee they'll stay put. Inner LCA bushings : press out inner sleeve with appropriate size deep socket,once out use deep socket just smaller than id of bushing hole in LCA and push bushing out.Easy peasy. Propane torch,wire brush will remove remnants of 30 yr. old bushings in seconds. Glass beaded and painted chassis black for like new appearance. Your new bushings should press out clean with no residue. When installing arm to subframe after installing energy suspension bushings,use some leftover grease supplied with bushings and shmear some on inside of subframe from mounting bolt holes downward to bottom of subframe. slide LCA up into subframe,wiggle front to back while pushing up,the grease will help it slide into place. Use a drift or screwdriver to center bushing sleeve in mounting hole,install bolt. New bushings/arm are a snug fit in subframe but will go in.
I'm glad this thread has been beneficial to people so far. I received a large order of parts today, including all of my brake parts and front suspension items. Few questions for those who have done this before.
1) Would replacing the control arms, tension rod bushings and installing my new RB front sway bar do anything that should throw off the alignment? I can't think of anything, but maybe I'm missing something.
2) I'd like to properly clean off the suspension pieces that I'm not replacing, the steering knuckles and tension rods. Does anyone have a recommendation for how to properly clean these?
3) The FSM states that "When pressing in the [lower control arm upper] bushing, there must be no lubricant on the bushing or suspension arm bore". The Energy Suspension bushings came with lubrication so I guess this is not the case anymore? Furthermore will I need a press, or can I just fit the bushings in? Seems to be the latter to me.
4) The tension rod nut needs to be torqued to 80-108 ft-lb. I have no idea how to do this, since I only have socket style torque wrenches, do they even make a different kind, sorry I'm new to this.
I will post some updates once I get things installed, to see what differences (if any) are made on the steering. Thanks!
I'm glad this thread has been beneficial to people so far. I received a large order of parts today, including all of my brake parts and front suspension items. Few questions for those who have done this before.
1) Would replacing the control arms, tension rod bushings and installing my new RB front sway bar do anything that should throw off the alignment? I can't think of anything, but maybe I'm missing something.
2) I'd like to properly clean off the suspension pieces that I'm not replacing, the steering knuckles and tension rods. Does anyone have a recommendation for how to properly clean these?
3) The FSM states that "When pressing in the [lower control arm upper] bushing, there must be no lubricant on the bushing or suspension arm bore". The Energy Suspension bushings came with lubrication so I guess this is not the case anymore? Furthermore will I need a press, or can I just fit the bushings in? Seems to be the latter to me.
4) The tension rod nut needs to be torqued to 80-108 ft-lb. I have no idea how to do this, since I only have socket style torque wrenches, do they even make a different kind, sorry I'm new to this.
I will post some updates once I get things installed, to see what differences (if any) are made on the steering. Thanks!
1. The tension rods control the camber for the most part, so make sure that they
are tightened to spec and end up with equal camber on both sides. Thats the
part that could throw off your alignment.
2. I would just wirebrush or sandblast them and then paint em black, avoiding
paint on the threads of course.
3. No press needed, I did mine by hand. Also you need to add lub to keep them
from making noises, can't hurt. The FSM states this probably because ordinary
grease back in the day would have caused the bushing to disintegrate.
4. I just did my best to estimate it using a large wrench. I'm not sure how you
torque it otherwise.
I'm glad this thread has been beneficial to people so far. I received a large order of parts today, including all of my brake parts and front suspension items. Few questions for those who have done this before.
1) Would replacing the control arms, tension rod bushings and installing my new RB front sway bar do anything that should throw off the alignment? I can't think of anything, but maybe I'm missing something.
2) I'd like to properly clean off the suspension pieces that I'm not replacing, the steering knuckles and tension rods. Does anyone have a recommendation for how to properly clean these?
3) The FSM states that "When pressing in the [lower control arm upper] bushing, there must be no lubricant on the bushing or suspension arm bore". The Energy Suspension bushings came with lubrication so I guess this is not the case anymore? Furthermore will I need a press, or can I just fit the bushings in? Seems to be the latter to me.
4) The tension rod nut needs to be torqued to 80-108 ft-lb. I have no idea how to do this, since I only have socket style torque wrenches, do they even make a different kind, sorry I'm new to this.
I will post some updates once I get things installed, to see what differences (if any) are made on the steering. Thanks!
Remove the front nuts on tension rods,leave rear nuts untouched. Remove bolts/nuts holding rear of tension rod to lca,remove tension rod from car. Count threads from rear nut to threaded end of tension rod and record for both sides,left and right may be different thread count. I glassbeaded my suspension parts,primed and painted. However you refinish yours,reinstall the rear nuts to their respective thread counts on tension rods,assemle washersbushings,sleeves and loosely install into swaybar bracket mounts,reinstall bolts/nuts in lca. Install front bushing washer.locwasher and nut just slightly tight. Tighten tension rod nuts/bolts in lca. Put car back on ground to tighten front tension rod nuts. Take lower grille out if not already removed. 1 1/16" deep socket,12" extension will allow torque wrench to be used. Torqued mine to 100ft.lbs. The tension rod bolts on the lca will keep the tension rod from turning while torquing to spec,no need to put a wrench on the other 1 1/16" nut. I aligned my car and only had to adjust one side nut 1/4 turn. Put it back together exactly as taken apart,alignment should not change.
I'm glad this thread has been beneficial to people so far. I received a large order of parts today, including all of my brake parts and front suspension items. Few questions for those who have done this before.
1) Would replacing the control arms, tension rod bushings and installing my new RB front sway bar do anything that should throw off the alignment? I can't think of anything, but maybe I'm missing something.
2) I'd like to properly clean off the suspension pieces that I'm not replacing, the steering knuckles and tension rods. Does anyone have a recommendation for how to properly clean these?
3) The FSM states that "When pressing in the [lower control arm upper] bushing, there must be no lubricant on the bushing or suspension arm bore". The Energy Suspension bushings came with lubrication so I guess this is not the case anymore? Furthermore will I need a press, or can I just fit the bushings in? Seems to be the latter to me.
4) The tension rod nut needs to be torqued to 80-108 ft-lb. I have no idea how to do this, since I only have socket style torque wrenches, do they even make a different kind, sorry I'm new to this.
I will post some updates once I get things installed, to see what differences (if any) are made on the steering. Thanks!
Installing the RB swaybar,you'll likely have to clearance the holes in swaybar bracket the bar has to pass thru,they're not quite large enough for the diameter of the new bar. Once you get the bar installed with the bushings in swaybar bracket,before you connect bushings to lca, cycle the bar up and down as it would be attached to the lca. You may need to radius the body of the car where the bar pivots,again due to the larger diameter of the new bar,may hit body.
03-05-16, 11:56 AM
