SilverRocket

Recently, I have made some observations suggesting that our cars are quicker than their modest horsepower numbers suggest.

Case 1:

Tonight, I was cruising around Toronto with a buddy, when we came upon a brand new Nissan Maxima. We raced from a stoplight to about 140 km/hr. By the end of second gear, his rear tire was right beside my door. But through third gear he could pull no further away, and I started catching up! And I know he wasn't toying with me, his motor was screaming. Now I know the Maxima weighs like 1000 pounds more, but with his 220 horses (240?) I thought I would get roasted. He was alone in the car too, I was not. WTF?

Case 2:

I have a friend who owns an 2000 yellow Integra Type R, with the works (Tanabe header and muffler, no cats, light flywheel, etc,etc,etc). We decided to race, just for the hell of it, and I figured he would leave me very far behind. But from a slow roll to about 120 km/hr, he only pulled about 1-2 car lengths or so. Granted I had an almost totally empty fuel tank though. I know he was going full throttle because he told me so afterwords.

Case 3:

Now this one is pretty sketchy. I was ripping it around some backroads and ran into a woman (total cougar!!) driving an early 90s corvette, who followed me through some very high speed twisties. We pulled up at a light later on, and my buddy and I smiled at at this cougar...she started reving at me. Well, we raced, and she pulled about 2 cars on me to about 120 km/hr or so. Maybe she didn't know how to drive that well or something, but still...

Although I lost all of these races, my point is that our cars are underestimated. I figure I couldn't be putting down much more than 120 horsepower to the wheels, and yet I can keep up to some decently fast cars. My last quartermile time was 15.7 @ 87mph on street tires @35psi, but I have done a thing or too since then.

The common thing in all these experiences is that I lose ground in 1st/2nd gears, and hold solid in 3rd/4th gears. All this makes me very proud of the first gen and especially the 12A. But, is losing by a car length or so a bigger loss than I think?

Have you boys/girls had similar experiences?

Damn I can't wait to get some serious mods so I can really represent.

My mild modifications are listed below.

Zog

Yes, my stock 82 is similar. It's quite quick on the highway.

-Zog

JoshP

My car can keep up with many a piston engined beast.
My buddy's bro was trying to smoke me in his 88 FC, but he couldn't do it!! he was ahead, but only by a car, all the way through town!!! keeping up with 5.0s is great fun!!!
Josh

SilverRocket

I have the same experience with n/a FC's. I have beaten quite a few, sometimes it's not even close. I think those cars tend to have more problems than ours(clogged cats, etc.), meaning that lots of them are not running as well as they should.

I have never had a serious race with a 5.0, but I got smoked by a new mustang GT....

The best are the Civic ricers who don't know what they're up against. I'll pull 2-3 cars by the end of first gear, and then pull in front of them. Usually they won't even pull up beside me after that. Even better is the looks from their girl in the passenger seat, like "I want to be in that guy's car!!!".

JoshP

"i wanna be in that guy's car!"
i love it!!!

but yeah, when someone hears rotary, they don't think v8 eater-upper!!
Josh

Zog

Yeah... I agree about the performance of many of the n/a FC's... they should be faster than the 1st generation 7s, but many of them don't seem to be. I suspect that a good well maintained 12a is a longer lasting motor than the 13b... perhaps they remain tighter after all these years (keeping better compression, etc.)?

I was in the market for a FC last year. But I couldn't find an n/a FC that I felt was faster than my stock 82... but, I will concede that most of them were a bit smoother at lower revs. But none seemed to have the top end "bite".

I still have my 82, but I eventually settled on an 87 Porsche 924S... which is definitely faster than my 82 RX7 and any n/a FC I've ever been in.

-Zog

JoshP

sweet car Zog!!!
yeah, i had the same feeling when i test drove an FC.
seemed really sluggish, like it was pulling a load.
then again, it was at a used car shop and i'm sure it wasn't in it's best form. but my friend's FC wasn't any ordinary FC. he's the kind of guy that goes deep into the engine to extract power. bigger injectors, wired ports, etc.
i was still right behind him. it was funny cuz we're flying up the street and he lets off the throttle and wham, black smoke everywhere!!!! i couldn't see ****!!!! he rigged his oil metering pump so that it shoots lots of oil and burns it all up so as to increase the life of his motor. and it was worked great!! but alas, he is selling it for the indestructable 89 supra turbo!!!
Josh

SilverRocket

Yeah, I think our 12A's are more solid, maybe due in part to their simplicity? I mean, with the 13B's fuel injection and all the associated electronic junk, there is so much more that can go wrong. And half of them have clogged cats or so I've heard. It makes a difference too that ours are so easy to work on, you gotta love that you can mess with every part on our cars with not much more than a metric socket set.

The FC's are way heavier too, especially the GXLs with all the luxury crap. They have no chance of keeping up to a strong base model 12A with a few effective mods.

SilverRocket

Hey Zog, how does the Porsche compare to your rex in the handling department? They are wicked cars as well, I find the 924/944 looks kinda similar to the rex in terms of body shape and proportions.

JoshP

The light weight of the 1st gen is a great advantage.
But the power that can be extracted from the 12a with a few effective mods can be great. i'm really impressed by SilverRocket's times at the track. hey SR, what mods did you have at the time?
i really need to get to the track or get a g-tech.
Josh

SilverRocket

Thanks!!

Actually, the only things I have changed since then is I eliminated my vacuum advance, advanced my timing to 24L 16T (yaw specs), and fixed an annoying throttle cable problem which was sometimes preventing me from getting full power.

Surprisingly, the timing advance made quite an improvement, allowing the motor to rev up much quicker, and feels noticeably smoother.

Before installing my electric fan, I was running around 16.0. It noticeably improves power off the line, and also helps in cooling the engine down between drag runs, which seems to lead to quicker times.

From prior experience, I know that tire pressures make quite a difference at the track. Too bad the last time I was there I forgot my tire-inflator (plugs into cigarette lighter).

The thing about the track I have been to though (Luskville dragway in Quebec), is that the surface is VERY slick. What I mean is that first gear is pretty much useless, due to excessive tire spin. On the street I can get way better launches.

I'd love to try out a g-tech to see what I'd run on the street with a good launch; I think I could get mid 15s no problem.

JoshP

so the performance mods were just exhaust work and the fan, and you ran a 15.7!! right on!!! i would really like to see what times i can get.
oh yeah, do you have a pci of your driver's seat?
Josh

apremdas

I have a story to share about my 82 RX7. I purchased it brand new in the fall of 1981. (here in Canada) I started modifying it when I read my first magazine called "Rotary Rocket". Anyway I called up Racing Beat (back in 1984) and installed a twin 44mm Mikuni carb, Racing Intake, Racing Beat 'Killer Bee' exhaust system, Centerforce II Clutch package, and Front Air Dam, Flying Whale tail.
I had the car tuned at Boss Automotive in Calgary (at the time, I'm pretty sure they may not exist today). They took it to the Calgary Race Track and they reached 156 mph (yes I said miles per hour). When I picked up the car they said that it could go faster with more enhancements but I was absolutely astounded with the existing performance. It was great. I had a buddy who drove a black 1992 Mustang 5.0 and he couldn't keep up with me, especially on tight corners.
In 1999 I opted for a huge upgrade to my RX7. I traded off the 12A engine for a 6 Street Ported 13B 1985 engine and dropped it into my 1982 RX7. Along with a 1985 turbo transmission, and kept the Mikuni setup with a slight alteration to the intake and exhaust manifolds. I haven't taken it out to a track but I'm hoping that it can do at least 180 mph. Oh and I have 2 MSD digital 6AL ignition boxes controlling the pre-ignition and the primary iginition. The car runs beautifully and is quick but I think that I'll change out he Mikuni for either Delottros or Webers.

Just thought I would share this with you all.

SilverRocket

You bet... the header/presilencer/muffler makes a huge difference!! I also found the rx7.com intake helped out on the top end, but probably CAI is better. My car has been maintained religiously and has always been a strong runner too.

I think that our quartermile times are slow for the highway performance of our cars; it's the low end that slows down our times. Maybe 50-100 mph or something similar would be a more comparable measure of performance.

The next thing is MSD and rejetting my carb. I actually have had the bigger jets sitting around for a while, but I didn't have the ***** to follow through with major carb surgery. I hate paying others to work on my car, so eventually I guess I'll give it a go.

Eventually I want a new carburator to really unleash the power, I'm thinking Yaw, but I've heard it takes forever for that guy to get you one.

The seat goes in this week... I guess my sig is kind of a lie I really should get some pics of my car in digital form. Do you ever find yourself using up whole rolls of film taking pics of your rex? I do this all the time.

SilverRocket

Holy Christ, Apremdas, your car has to be the most beautiful/badass piece of machinery I have ever seen!!!

My uncle bought mine new in 82, which I inherited when I was 16 at 65,000 kms. I'm now 21, with 115,000 kms on the clock.

Where are you in Canada, still in Calgary?

Do you have any more pictures, maybe of your engine??

JoshP

actually i don't think i've ever taken any pics of my car, my girl said she'd pose though!!!!
i'm looking for some seats to get, i'm thinking maybe t2 seats, but they might be hard to find. so, if i can get a good idea on seats (or seat, my girl might not like the comfort level!) and how they fit, i'll prolly go through with a new seat. i need to start making some more money!!!
Josh

Zog

"Hey Zog, how does the Porsche compare to your rex in the handling department? They are wicked cars as well, I find the 924/944 looks kinda similar to the rex in terms of body shape and proportions."


Not to dis my Rex, but the 924S is even better in the handling department... the Porsche has a more sophisticated suspension system, particularly in the rear. The steering is rack and pinion, and like the REX, the weight distribution is almost 50-50, because of the light all-aluminum front engine and the rear-mounted gearbox. Plus it has 11 1/2 " discs up front and 11 1/4" discs in the rear.

The 924S is kind of an interesting car, because it's not really a 924... it's actually an 87 944, in the lighter (more aerodynamic) body of the 924.

It was kind of a Porsche marketing f**k up, since in 87, the 924S was supposed to be a "little brother" alternative to the 944. But, they succeded in making a faster car for less money.

If anyone here is in the market for a entry-level Porsche, the 924S is probably the most bang for the buck. They are actually faster than a (regular, non-turbo) 944, but they are cheaper right now on the used market. This is mainly due to the fact that most people seem to want the more macho flared look of the 944, plus... they don't know what the 924S really is It's a real little "sleeper".

-Zog

Felix Wankel

Black smoke is from the dumbass putting bigger fuel injectors in it. His car is probably slower than stock from running rich....

Oil smoke is white.


And my FC with intake, header, exhaust will whoop up on my 12A car with header, exhaust and ignition... Wait till I get my clutch and carb though

My -SE will keep up, and its stock except for the um, "missing" precats.

apremdas

Here's a composite pic of my car and the engine bay. I hope you can see them clearly.

SilverRocket

That's one badass first gen!! I think it's the nicest looking Mariah kit I've seen!

What kind of rims are those?? I'm guessing that you are not still using the 4x110 bolt pattern.

And what are you using for brakes to stop your 180mph monster?

Dude, you should set up a website, I think many people would be interested. How about some larger pictures for starters?

JoshP

that's a very nice car apremdas!!!!
all that downforce from your body kit is a great help at those high speeds!!!
Felix: yeah, i just thought all that smoke was from his oil and a combo of him running rich. actually, that's kinda why he sold his car cuz his injectors were leaking. i don't know how much of a noticeable problem that would cause, but he got tired of tweaking. i guess that's why i like my 12a, not much tweaking.
Josh

Suparslinc

GXL weighs about 200-300 lbs. more than a GS. Not a big difference considering they have an extra 59-60 hp. And better aerodynamics. I love my old '84 and it handles great but it is nowhere near my '90 in terms of performance. I would take on any 12A with a stock engine and N/A. All the bolt-on performance mods in the world arent going to keep up with a well-tuned series V motor.

SilverRocket

The following stats are from the second generation rx7 faq at http://rx-7.cep.net/FAQ/faq4.html :

1979-85 Rx-7 weight: approx. 2300 lbs
1989-91 NA Rx-7 weight: approx. 2750 lbs

That is 450 pounds difference, significant enough.

Maybe my statement was too strong, but my point is that it doesn't take much extra power for the 12A to keep up with an FC, considering the weight advantage.

I think our original point was that it seems like many FC's are slower than they are supposed to be, and many FB's are quicker than you'd expect.

I know my FB in good condition with a couple mods can take quite a few FC's out there in questionable condition, but as for FC's in good shape with mods - obviously not.

Suparslinc

I totally agree; and I guess 450 lbs cannot be igored thats more than I thought. For some reason I always thought my GSL weighed in at about 2750.
The FCs don't usually have as caring owners. I know alot of them that run pretty terrible and are beat to hell and back. When my '84 was still running, I went and test drove a '87 GXL. It belonged to my dads boss; and it was really nice and clean just not any faster than my car. I don't think he knew how to take care of it mechanically.

Denny

Awwww, Cheeeeez.....

Silver Rocket, you and aprendas should also be under "Garage Arrest" along with Felix....The hosses you Trailhands ride have gotta be against some law somewhere.....Maybe I can convince the State Patrol to seize your ponies and deliver 'em to my corral, but they'd probably fall on their knees and kowtow to your far superior modes of transportation....

I've said before, but I'll say it again....Put a fence around 'em and charge admission....Believe me, they will come...

Humble, and respectful, Stetson in hand...
Denny, from the 'ol corncrib...