FB Rear Suspension Geometry Problems/Options/Solutions
08-14-16, 03:21 PM
#326
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Also interested to see if anyone is tracking the T3 Panhard kit. It looks good for the price but I think its a diagonal mount that goes under the diff. There's a FB thread on it but not much else out there.
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php...18825541490643
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php...18825541490643
08-14-16, 05:05 PM
#327
Old [Sch|F]ool
I have yet to see anything on T3s website that isn't made for hard parkers. None of the product addresses any of the real issues with the chassis and in many cases actually makes the problems worse. (Solid jointed upper links? Really??)
It's a real shame, since the cars are getting too rare and outdated to be popular in road racing and autocross, which is where the aftermarket traditionally came from. So the performance oriented aftermarket is dried up to gone. It's nice that T3 is willing to step up but it is scandalous that the products are so ill-concieved. It's like giving a drowning man a packet of salt.
It's a real shame, since the cars are getting too rare and outdated to be popular in road racing and autocross, which is where the aftermarket traditionally came from. So the performance oriented aftermarket is dried up to gone. It's nice that T3 is willing to step up but it is scandalous that the products are so ill-concieved. It's like giving a drowning man a packet of salt.
Last edited by peejay; 08-14-16 at 05:07 PM.
08-14-16, 10:43 PM
#328
Also interested to see if anyone is tracking the T3 Panhard kit. It looks good for the price but I think its a diagonal mount that goes under the diff. There's a FB thread on it but not much else out there.
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php...18825541490643
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php...18825541490643
There is nothing new about that part. I don't know who made it before T3 but I remember seeing them break on IT RX7s. Not a good idea.
08-15-16, 01:48 AM
#329
20B/5 Speed/JC!
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I have yet to see anything on T3s website that isn't made for hard parkers. None of the product addresses any of the real issues with the chassis and in many cases actually makes the problems worse. (Solid jointed upper links? Really??)
It's a real shame, since the cars are getting too rare and outdated to be popular in road racing and autocross, which is where the aftermarket traditionally came from. So the performance oriented aftermarket is dried up to gone. It's nice that T3 is willing to step up but it is scandalous that the products are so ill-concieved. It's like giving a drowning man a packet of salt.
It's a real shame, since the cars are getting too rare and outdated to be popular in road racing and autocross, which is where the aftermarket traditionally came from. So the performance oriented aftermarket is dried up to gone. It's nice that T3 is willing to step up but it is scandalous that the products are so ill-concieved. It's like giving a drowning man a packet of salt.
I was actually looking at them for their coilover set up. Should I reconsider?
08-15-16, 05:04 AM
#330
Old [Sch|F]ool
The setup where they bore out the upright and install a standard size tube looks interesting. I'm not a fan of the gusset that they installed, they should go on the outside of tubes not the middle. (How do you crack an egg?)
I don't like the rear setup all that much, the stock rear shocks can stroke 8-9" in the rear and those springs look like they will have none of it. Keeping the rear tires on the road is important for non-scary handling and the rear suspension needs to move more freely, not less. Tire clearance may be a bitch, too.
The DIY front coilover setup looks okay, cheaper than you can buy the parts to do it yourself. Not thrilled with 8" springs on anything, though, for a street car you want front springs in the 175-225lb range and with springs that short they will be almost fully compressed at ride height.
I am NOT a fan of Koni dampers, though, after having lived with a couple different sets. They seem to have a corporate mindset of having excessive high speed damping, making the suspension feel extremely harsh over bumps. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction: If the suspension is harsh to the driver, it's also harsh on the tires, and harsh on the tires hurts keeping the tires in smooth contact with the road. Fine for a road course or smooth asphalt lake, not so much for street.
There, there's what I see.
I don't like the rear setup all that much, the stock rear shocks can stroke 8-9" in the rear and those springs look like they will have none of it. Keeping the rear tires on the road is important for non-scary handling and the rear suspension needs to move more freely, not less. Tire clearance may be a bitch, too.
The DIY front coilover setup looks okay, cheaper than you can buy the parts to do it yourself. Not thrilled with 8" springs on anything, though, for a street car you want front springs in the 175-225lb range and with springs that short they will be almost fully compressed at ride height.
I am NOT a fan of Koni dampers, though, after having lived with a couple different sets. They seem to have a corporate mindset of having excessive high speed damping, making the suspension feel extremely harsh over bumps. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction: If the suspension is harsh to the driver, it's also harsh on the tires, and harsh on the tires hurts keeping the tires in smooth contact with the road. Fine for a road course or smooth asphalt lake, not so much for street.
There, there's what I see.
Last edited by peejay; 08-15-16 at 05:06 AM.
08-15-16, 11:44 PM
#331
20B/5 Speed/JC!
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Good insight, I usually hear good things about their coilover so it's nice to hear some criticism about them. I'm trying to do research on what suspension set up best suits my needs, every spring and shock combo I've researched seems to be on the softer side. I've don't mind a slightly stiffer ride as long as going over bumps aren't bone jarring.
08-16-16, 07:20 AM
#333
Senior Member
The DIY front coilover setup looks okay, cheaper than you can buy the parts to do it yourself. Not thrilled with 8" springs on anything, though, for a street car you want front springs in the 175-225lb range and with springs that short they will be almost fully compressed at ride height.
08-19-16, 02:18 PM
#335
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https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-293/my-build-thread-finally-13b-rew-ford-8-8-fc-subframe-1037072/
10-30-16, 07:19 AM
#336
Old [Sch|F]ool
Apparently I was three wheeling it through certain corners, after dabbing the brake the inside front tire would not turn until corner exit. With 8" of front travel. On dirt. With an open rear diff.
07-01-17, 05:34 PM
#338
Resurrection of PBandJ Rear Suspension mod
Hey guys - wanted to let you know I've resurrected PBandJ's rear suspension mod, and I will be adding high res photos and a tutorial video in the next few weeks (apparently metric nylocks are exotic parts 
)
http://retrotuned.com/watts-link-tra...-modification/
I will be adding more and more tutorials, DIY, writeups, and tuning info as I go. I will basically be recreating my build thread & notes into this one resource.
If you see anything missing, incorrect, or have something to add, please comment, message me, email me, etc! The purpose of RetroTuned is to provide the most accurate, concise, and up-to-date real world information to cut through the wives tales that get locked into place via the forums.
Thanks, and enjoy!
)http://retrotuned.com/watts-link-tra...-modification/
I will be adding more and more tutorials, DIY, writeups, and tuning info as I go. I will basically be recreating my build thread & notes into this one resource.
If you see anything missing, incorrect, or have something to add, please comment, message me, email me, etc! The purpose of RetroTuned is to provide the most accurate, concise, and up-to-date real world information to cut through the wives tales that get locked into place via the forums.
Thanks, and enjoy!
Last edited by ioTus; 07-01-17 at 05:38 PM.
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Richard Miller (10-22-23)
08-28-17, 11:41 AM
#340
Senior Member
08-28-17, 03:41 PM
#342
The bracket bolting to shock mount... is okay for same limited lateral G environment, but weld a gusset from the bracket to the mount if you do more than hard parking. The Ground Control kit even came with that gusset.
That said, Kudos for T3 for still making parts for our old cars.
09-02-17, 10:23 AM
#343
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ive been meaning to post this for a while, but its Fungus Mungus's car. we changed the watts and lower links to spherical, and look at the articulation!
with sticky tires it almost drags the door handles on the ground
with sticky tires it almost drags the door handles on the ground
09-05-17, 09:24 AM
#344
Senior Member
09-05-17, 04:38 PM
#346
Senior Member
I am still debating on trying out the rear upper and lower spherical T3 trailing arms. No one has really post anything about them besides the people who don't have them advising that they will bind.
09-05-17, 05:13 PM
#347
Old [Sch|F]ool
I don't need to have them to say they will bind - THEY WILL BIND.
You can see this for yourself. Set the car up on jackstands, remove the springs, support the axle in the middle to the car's normal ride height, unbolt the rear of one of the uppers, and loosen the other bolt. Now get another jack under the axle end and articulate the axle.
You will notice that at some points there will be over an inch of disparity between the through-hole in the upper link, and the axle mount. At different ride heights, this disparity can be as much as two inches.
Mazda got around this by using huge swaybars (18mm '79-80, 15mm '81-85) to keep the suspension from wanting to articulate in the first place, and large compliant bushings. They had to make the geometry like this in order to fit a rear seat into an already cramped chassis.
These are the geometrical issues that tear the upper link mounts off of the body on hard-driven cars.
These issues will get INCREDIBLY WORSE if you stiffen up the bushings so they can't move, and especially if you lower the car.
Y'know, I actually have a stock rear suspension car again, I just may make an educational video demonstrating this.
You can see this for yourself. Set the car up on jackstands, remove the springs, support the axle in the middle to the car's normal ride height, unbolt the rear of one of the uppers, and loosen the other bolt. Now get another jack under the axle end and articulate the axle.
You will notice that at some points there will be over an inch of disparity between the through-hole in the upper link, and the axle mount. At different ride heights, this disparity can be as much as two inches.
Mazda got around this by using huge swaybars (18mm '79-80, 15mm '81-85) to keep the suspension from wanting to articulate in the first place, and large compliant bushings. They had to make the geometry like this in order to fit a rear seat into an already cramped chassis.
These are the geometrical issues that tear the upper link mounts off of the body on hard-driven cars.
These issues will get INCREDIBLY WORSE if you stiffen up the bushings so they can't move, and especially if you lower the car.
Y'know, I actually have a stock rear suspension car again, I just may make an educational video demonstrating this.
09-06-17, 05:16 PM
#349
ancient wizard...
09-06-17, 10:55 PM
#350
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