dino52047

2 reasons..a disconnected hose from the fuel something or other...and the timing was advanced...and/or tampered with, as he wrote down.

I have to pay someone to set the timing. What should I expect to pay? I got one quote for at least 1 hour @ $110. Seems high to me. I'm in the SF Bay Area..Thanks for your opinions...

1985 GSL SE 13B Carb

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Buying a timing light would cost you less than that, and you'd learn a useful skill.

Shop labor these days runs from between $95 to $120, depending on where you go. Setting timing is all labor (no parts), so the cost depends on how long it takes. Most shops won't charge less than an hour.

Reconnecting the somethingorother should be easy enough, if you can locate it. Discription's kinda vague. probably the fuel tank vent valve, if I had to guess.

dino52047

Thanks DD...Yeah I think it was the vent valve. There's a pot on the top of the engine.. passenger side.. it connects to. He said something about the vapor being redirected to the fuel tank I think. On the form it says fuel evaporative controls disconnected..

How much are timing lights..and how can I find out how it's done. I mean is it something I could learn quickly and do myself w/o someone there to show me how?

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

A decent Craftsman manual inductive timing light from Sears will cost about $50. You can find basic ones from PartsAmerica for $40, or pay $200 for a souped up digital light that is likely more than you need for cars of our age.

I bought a craftsman light (like the current $60 one) nearly 20 years ago,and it's still good to this day.

A timing light is basically just a strobe light that flashes in synch with ignition firing.

The field sevice manual (get the link to download it from the FAQ thread) or any auto-repair manual gives you the detailed instructions, but basically, you get the car up to a normal-temperature idle PRM, hook the light up to the battery, and clamp it to a plug wire, and then shine it on the front balance counterweight. The light flashes when the plug fires, and lets you see the timing marks on the counterweight. The marks line up with a pin on the engine front cover when things are good.

To set the leading timing, you loosen the hold-down nut for the distributor, and slowly rotate it until the timing mark lines up. For the trailing timing, you adjust the little vacuum advance diaphram on the side, via a couple philips screws.

Once you've done it a few times, it takes only a few minutes. It's quite easy; probably the hardest part is keeping the cords out of the fan (!).

Proper timing is crucial to both efficiency and performance, so it's worth checking every so often, as it can drift over time.

dino52047

Guys an update and a question.

I still haven't fixed this thing yet..but found out that the timing couldn't possibly be set at 35 degrees as the smog test guy indicates...as the car wouldn't run. Several Mazda experts told me so. So I called the consumer complaint number for smog tests and the resident expert there said it's possible that the harmonic balancer is out of whack thereby causing the timing marks to be in the wrong place and indicating the wrong setting. At least that's what I understood him to say.

So has anyone ever heard of this..or had a similar issue? I'm told that it's an expensive fix too..anyone have an idea how expensive??? Thanks in advance..

old_skool

last time i checked, my car didn't have a harmonic balancer. the marks should be on your front pulley. its possible someone removed the pulley at one time and put it back on in the wrong position.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Or it could just be that the smog tech didn't know what he was doing - - like having the timing lead clamped on the wrong wire.

The front counterweight, part of the front stack, is keyed onto the eccentric shaft, and the front pulley (which has the timing marks on it) is also keyed to the shaft by a rivet on water-pump pulley. It only goes together one way. You'd have to re-machine keyways into these parts, or drill a hole in the front pulley, to get them on wrong.

It's possible somebody in the past put incorrect marks on the pulley, but if the counterweight were in anything other than the correct position, the engine would shake itself to bits.

old_skool

true. im running the pulleys for a s/c setup. and i can attest what can happen if the counterweight is not in the right position (key was short and didn't seat right)

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

The SAs have a rivet to hold the pulley to the hub, the FBs do not. On the FB, you can remove the pulley (4 small bolts) and put it back on 1 of 4 different ways. Then when you time it, you are timing to the wrong spot.

For instance, aws140 on here was hearing what sounded like detonation. Only happened when trailing was connected and worse with the MSD box. Timing marks lined up, checked wires, different dizzy, etc. Turned out that the pully way on the wrong way.

Edit: Oh..the timing can be wayyyy off and still run okay. Like aws140's car ran okay and I think he was 180* out.

old_skool

thanks, i thought i was delusinal

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Here is the thread about aws140:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...railing+timing

First you will want a timing light to see if you are currently lined up with the timing marks

Second, if you are lined up, but still susupect that the maybe the pulley is on wrong, wackyracer has some good posts on finding TDC (Top Dead Center) by removing an inspection plate and looking at the flywheel. This will tell if pulley is on wrong.

Thirdly, if on wrong, correct the position and reset timing.

OtakuRX

iTrader: (1)

Well a 13B carb setup isn't factory setup far as I know and could present emissions issues. To me it sounds like the smog techs don't know what they are talking about. The vent line should go to the charcoal canister. Check the timing on the motor, but I'd wager they hooked up the light wrong.

dino52047

The disconnected hose seems to be coming from a unit on the passengert side of the motor. IIRC there is a line coming from that unit routed along the firewall to which this black rubber hose connects..it is either severed at a point above the plugs or disconnected from a connection near there as it's just hanging there.

Btw I have a fuel injected 1985 GSL SE 13B...do I have a harmonic balancer? If the "tech" erred..which plug wire is he supposed to clip on to..I'll be monitoring this time.

dino52047

Oh btw..this was a replacement engine that I had installed by Rick at PR Motorsports in Hayward, Ca. He's been in the Mazda biz a long time..and he's my go to guy when I have problems. Not understanding these things myself...is it possible that when they put the engine in, that the pulley was hooked up wrong?

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Junk it.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

To get it to run 180* out, you'd have to swap leading and trailing ignitions somewhere along the line, wouldn't you? The dizzy doesn't seem to have enough adjustment play by itself to accomodate 180* of phase error, I wouldn't think.

I'm amazed they'll run 90* out, but I can see where there might be enough adjustment to get at least one system firing into the compression stroke, until the advance kicked in.

PS; timing is always done to the #1 (front) leading ignition first. Trailing ignition has it's own adjustment, but without setting the leading first it's not real pertinent.

PPS; without an index rivet, the pulley could get messed up even changing a water pump. Not a typical mistake for a pro to make, but then, by definition mistakes aren't typical anyway.

dino52047

Thanks DD..is it possible that a pro could install the pulley wrong when they installed my engine?

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Never had a pro work on my car... but anybody can have a bad day, I guess.

dino52047

For anyone interested..it was only a matter of turning the distributor a half inch or so. That put me in compliance...

But the fuel evaporitive hose doesn't seem to have any port on the manifold to connect to. This is an engine that was purchased used and our guess is that it is a Japanese import where they didn't have smog control laws necessitating a vacuum source for it to connect to. So...I tucked the disconnected hose down under the firewall where it couldn't be seen or traced...went to a different smog test station..and passed. I didn't even see this new guy check the timing at all...But it ended up costing me $70 more just to get it over with!

boyee

iTrader: (3)

congrats on getting your 7 legit! hope to see it at a local meet soon

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

I'll wager the first smog tech had the timing light on the trailing wire, and that you were 15 degrees off... that would put you 35 degrees off, total by indication.

Grats on being working! I hope my luck is as good as yours; I'll be going in as soon as I get this floody float issue solved.

dino52047

Thanks for chiming in guys.