Electrical and Mechanical Differences Between S/GS/GSL of GSL-SE?
05-28-08, 04:42 PM
#1
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Electrical and Mechanical Differences Between S/GS/GSL of GSL-SE?
Okay, as most of you know I wrecked my 1982 RX7 Whatcha Ma Call it (God knows what Model it really is 
) and so I need a new frame to shove the 12A in.
One of the fourm members was kind enough to donate his 1984 GSL-SE shell to me.
Now I did a search and I can't seem to answer this question as deeply as I want...
I know that between 82-84 the dash and interior were changed slightly along with the placement of the 13B with its crossmember and the sunroof are the major differences between the cars.
Now my question is, what about the wiring and mechanical things? How different is the wiring from the older models (1982) and are there any frame or mechanical differences between the cars in terms of the axles bolting up, steering placement, ect?
) and so I need a new frame to shove the 12A in.One of the fourm members was kind enough to donate his 1984 GSL-SE shell to me.
Now I did a search and I can't seem to answer this question as deeply as I want...
I know that between 82-84 the dash and interior were changed slightly along with the placement of the 13B with its crossmember and the sunroof are the major differences between the cars.
Now my question is, what about the wiring and mechanical things? How different is the wiring from the older models (1982) and are there any frame or mechanical differences between the cars in terms of the axles bolting up, steering placement, ect?
05-29-08, 02:05 PM
#2
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Another question... How similar are the wiring harnesses between a GSL-SE and a 2nd Gen 13B? I may just ditch my 12A in favor of an NA 13B...
LoL
05-29-08, 10:40 PM
#5
you can "showed" that 12-A motor in a GSL-SE engine bay but you have to add a spacer between the front engine mount and cover since the 13-B is slightly longer than a 12-A (unless you can think of something better such as a custom mount).
Electrical wise, GSL-SE is fuel injection so the harness is somewhat different. Is your 12-A smoggable? if it is, then transfer the entire engine harness along with the ECU and just re-wire the main or just leave it there for looks.
Electrical wise, GSL-SE is fuel injection so the harness is somewhat different. Is your 12-A smoggable? if it is, then transfer the entire engine harness along with the ECU and just re-wire the main or just leave it there for looks.
05-29-08, 11:24 PM
#6
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Hmm... Thanks Wacky, that answers one question. I have two 12A subframes right now so I think I can make it work.
What about my alternative idea of dropping a 86-89 13B into that bay? Would I need to swap the harnesses and ECU as well? or are they similar enough that it wouldn't matter?
What about my alternative idea of dropping a 86-89 13B into that bay? Would I need to swap the harnesses and ECU as well? or are they similar enough that it wouldn't matter?
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05-30-08, 12:46 AM
#8
I have a set of spacers and longer bolts to fit a 12A in a 13B chassis. I used it in PercentSevenC's car after the GSL-SE crossmember went in, but the 13B wasn't ready yet so it had a 12A. The spacers and bolts worked perfectly. Then the 13B went in and the spacers came out. 13B fits perfectly too.
The spacers and bolts are currently available for a project such as yours.
The spacers and bolts are currently available for a project such as yours.
05-30-08, 10:10 AM
#11
No distributor? No thanks
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Does the FC use the same kind of EFI harness as the SE, where' it's a standalone add-in, or is it integrated with the car?
The GSL-SE EFI harness has everything you need for EFI, and it's independent of the car's wiring harness. To move your 12A bits to an SE shell, you'd just remove the harness, swap in your 12A ECU and take all the sensors out with the engine (not sure if your shell has an engine or not). The SE has a slight change in the axle pickup points, but you'd never notice. The fuel supply is also different, but you can carry over your low-pressure pump and white plastic filter to the SE shell, you'll just have some unfamilar stuff to throw out of the SE shell (different pump, steel canister fuel filter).
If you swap in a 12A subframe, toss all the EFI harness and sensors, and cut the -SE part off your rear badge, you'd have a 95% correct 12A car. There's really not a lot to it.
If you DO want to go with a 6-port injection setup, you'll want to put the 12A front cover on your 13B of choice, use an SE oil pan, keep the front crossmember, bolt your 12A tranny to it, and slip it in. I've got a full set of GSL-SE EFI hardware (ECU, harness, AFM, TB, etc) but you might be able to move some FC hardware in there instead.
The GSL-SE EFI harness has everything you need for EFI, and it's independent of the car's wiring harness. To move your 12A bits to an SE shell, you'd just remove the harness, swap in your 12A ECU and take all the sensors out with the engine (not sure if your shell has an engine or not). The SE has a slight change in the axle pickup points, but you'd never notice. The fuel supply is also different, but you can carry over your low-pressure pump and white plastic filter to the SE shell, you'll just have some unfamilar stuff to throw out of the SE shell (different pump, steel canister fuel filter).
If you swap in a 12A subframe, toss all the EFI harness and sensors, and cut the -SE part off your rear badge, you'd have a 95% correct 12A car. There's really not a lot to it.
If you DO want to go with a 6-port injection setup, you'll want to put the 12A front cover on your 13B of choice, use an SE oil pan, keep the front crossmember, bolt your 12A tranny to it, and slip it in. I've got a full set of GSL-SE EFI hardware (ECU, harness, AFM, TB, etc) but you might be able to move some FC hardware in there instead.
05-30-08, 11:25 AM
#12
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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The Story Behind the Questions? Maybe. :P
Does the FC use the same kind of EFI harness as the SE, where' it's a standalone add-in, or is it integrated with the car?
The GSL-SE EFI harness has everything you need for EFI, and it's independent of the car's wiring harness. To move your 12A bits to an SE shell, you'd just remove the harness, swap in your 12A ECU and take all the sensors out with the engine (not sure if your shell has an engine or not). The SE has a slight change in the axle pickup points, but you'd never notice. The fuel supply is also different, but you can carry over your low-pressure pump and white plastic filter to the SE shell, you'll just have some unfamilar stuff to throw out of the SE shell (different pump, steel canister fuel filter).
If you swap in a 12A subframe, toss all the EFI harness and sensors, and cut the -SE part off your rear badge, you'd have a 95% correct 12A car. There's really not a lot to it.
If you DO want to go with a 6-port injection setup, you'll want to put the 12A front cover on your 13B of choice, use an SE oil pan, keep the front crossmember, bolt your 12A tranny to it, and slip it in. I've got a full set of GSL-SE EFI hardware (ECU, harness, AFM, TB, etc) but you might be able to move some FC hardware in there instead.
The GSL-SE EFI harness has everything you need for EFI, and it's independent of the car's wiring harness. To move your 12A bits to an SE shell, you'd just remove the harness, swap in your 12A ECU and take all the sensors out with the engine (not sure if your shell has an engine or not). The SE has a slight change in the axle pickup points, but you'd never notice. The fuel supply is also different, but you can carry over your low-pressure pump and white plastic filter to the SE shell, you'll just have some unfamilar stuff to throw out of the SE shell (different pump, steel canister fuel filter).
If you swap in a 12A subframe, toss all the EFI harness and sensors, and cut the -SE part off your rear badge, you'd have a 95% correct 12A car. There's really not a lot to it.
If you DO want to go with a 6-port injection setup, you'll want to put the 12A front cover on your 13B of choice, use an SE oil pan, keep the front crossmember, bolt your 12A tranny to it, and slip it in. I've got a full set of GSL-SE EFI hardware (ECU, harness, AFM, TB, etc) but you might be able to move some FC hardware in there instead.
The gas tank was removed and the 13B crossmember is gone, though I have an extra 12A one (hence why I was wondering if the GSL-SE Crossmember is the same as the FC). There are no axles or spindles, suspension or wheels (I have all that on my seven, 4 disc brakes with a LSD).
So in short, I am at a point where I am looking at putting in my trusty 12A; which has run for nearly 250k miles without a hiccup or running the junkyards for an FC engine to mate to my rebuilt 5 Speed Manual Tranny.
From what it sounds like though, the GSL-SE's PCM and EFI wiring are convienently seperate from the main harness and sound like they would be rather interchangable with an FC wiring harness and PCM. I was also thinking about dropping in a Ford 9" while I troll the yards, but that may come later.
I will be out of town starting tomorrow and will not be back in the country until the end of July; running to Cozumel, Mexico with family for a SCUBA Diving trip we planned for two weeks and then visiting grandparents and working at a Sweedish Automotive Repair shop for the month that I am there. I will try to log on when I can, but I don't I could get on as much as I would like.
Your guys opinions are very welcome and highly awaited!
05-30-08, 12:09 PM
#13
The Se wiring and ECU are not compatible with the FC components. The FC has a totally different injection/fuel management system in it.
If you just wanted to run a simplified 12a with an after market carb in it then you could utilize the existing wiring from the se to control the ignition and the fuel pump circuit. You would just be leaving all of the FI harness unconnected.
If you had a 84-85 12a harness then you could just remove the SE harness and install that and run a fully emission controlled carb system such as the stock one.
You could also use a S4 N/A engine in there and also run the SE injection harness and ECU to it.
You would either just use the SE AFM/Manifolds and throttle body on the S4 engine or you could use the S4 manifolds with the Se injectors and AFM. You would just use the SE injectors in the primary position and block off or just don't run the fuel rail to the secondary injector location on the S4 manifolds.
If you went with the S4 ECU, etc then I would recommend using the harness from the donor vehicle with all of the S4 ignition/fuel systems.
If you just wanted to run a simplified 12a with an after market carb in it then you could utilize the existing wiring from the se to control the ignition and the fuel pump circuit. You would just be leaving all of the FI harness unconnected.
If you had a 84-85 12a harness then you could just remove the SE harness and install that and run a fully emission controlled carb system such as the stock one.
You could also use a S4 N/A engine in there and also run the SE injection harness and ECU to it.
You would either just use the SE AFM/Manifolds and throttle body on the S4 engine or you could use the S4 manifolds with the Se injectors and AFM. You would just use the SE injectors in the primary position and block off or just don't run the fuel rail to the secondary injector location on the S4 manifolds.
If you went with the S4 ECU, etc then I would recommend using the harness from the donor vehicle with all of the S4 ignition/fuel systems.
05-30-08, 05:17 PM
#15
I am referring to the ECU/AFM, injectors, etc that go with each particular generation.
The pump and filter in the injection swap you could use the standard SE ones no matter if you went with the S4 engine or the SE.
The pump and filter in the injection swap you could use the standard SE ones no matter if you went with the S4 engine or the SE.
Last edited by Rx-7Doctor; 05-30-08 at 06:55 PM. Reason: clearer statement about usage
06-05-08, 05:42 PM
#17
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Oh, by the way. I check the archives and found a nice thread answering my questions of using a FC Radiator in the stock position.
Now my other question is does anyone have any pictures of this set-up? or at least pictures of the modified 12A radiator brackets?
PS- Admin, could you please correct the title so it says "and" rather than "of" in the title? Was supposed to read; Electrical and Mechanical Differences Between S/GS/GSL and GSL-SE. Thanks.
Now my other question is does anyone have any pictures of this set-up? or at least pictures of the modified 12A radiator brackets?
PS- Admin, could you please correct the title so it says "and" rather than "of" in the title? Was supposed to read; Electrical and Mechanical Differences Between S/GS/GSL and GSL-SE. Thanks.
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