leif

ok, I did the responcible thing, I wanted to know about Direct Fire so i did a search, and got 400+ responces...could someone narrow the field for me?

I want to know about...what to do, how to do it, the advantages, the drawbacks etc.

which threads should i look for? or could you help me directly?

thanks

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

How much money do you have to spend?

leif

I have a yard full of second gens, and all summer to waste....maney is a bit of a problem, but i can afford to wait...

V8kilr

I'll have a bolt in kit ready by next weekend.
You can save yourself the headaches and hassles with the kit.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I am curious to see what came out of the mind of one who kills V8s.

Fuel524

im interested in the kit.

Mills

iTrader: (1)

Me too!

V8kilr

Good to see some interest in the kit and I hate to thread jack but I have some questions.

Feel free to post here or p.m. me with your ideas.


OK here goes.

Even though the kits are nearly complete I still have a ton of ideas floating through my head ( to the point that im even having a bit of trouble sleeping cause I keep comming up with more ideas)

First let me describe the FlameWorks kit.
The flameworks kit has both coils connected to the custom ignition box.
This setup is rather big and bulky, very big and bulky actually.
After a bunch of time in the engine bay I found a couple possible mounting locations but it still just doesnt seem real sleek and oem looking.
What I was thinking was seperating the 2, then the ignition box would only measure 4x4x2, very small.
Then the 2 coils would either be on a seperate sheet of aluminum or they could even be seperated for even further mounting options.

I like the seperating the box and coils idea much more then my current design, but the whole reason I am making this kit is for people who dont really want to play with wiring and a bunch of custom work.
Which means they might prefer the all in one aproach.


My heart is already set on keeping the lite version as an all in 1 since its only 1 6330 coil which is about the same size as 1 of the 2 coils that are used in the flameworks kit.
Also the Lite version is for people who just want the benefits of direct fire without the added cost and hassles of doing it yourself.
I actually already changed the Lite version slighty, I noticed that the over all cost to build it was pretty high after adding everything up and decided to ditch the gold plated terminals, the aluminum box has been scaled back to a ABS box with aluminum base, and a few other modification, overall I was able to shave $25 off the final price of the lite version.


The full version on the other hand I could care less about the price as long as its cheaper then a fulll blown MSD setup, The benefits of being cheaper, better looking, and outperforming the MSD should be enough to sway people over to the darkside, maybe even jeff20b will scrap his custom setup for one of my units
, or at least to swap in one of my boxes to gain the sleek aluminum box, dedicated power line, reverse polarity protection, gold plated terminals, professional speakon connectors, status leds to indicate activity on the ignitors, etc... etc.....

The only thing I might do is chop $12.50 off the price of the full version if the buyer doesnt want the 2 coils, since some people already have coils they would like to use, Although I will say and say again later that I personally would take the 6320 coils over the blaster 2 coils any day of the week, I have had 3 blaster 2 coils slowly lose their life on me and even 2 of them start to deform and mutate from mounting them side ways.


So let me know what you think about seperating the units and making the coil packs optional.

thanks

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Now you've got me interested in 6320 coils. I've never been infatuated with the blaster 2s, but you seem convinced that the 6320 coils are better. I don't doubt it.

Why go to the store to buy milk when you've got a cow at home? I've already got the tools and the talent, but I would imagine your kits will be very interesting to a whole lot of people out there; especially with all the direct fire questions earlier today.

As for hooking up direct fire in an RX-7, I've never done it. I am always interested in seeing all the ways people have gotten around the specific problems in the 1st gen engine bay that don't exist in older rotaries (distance of coils to the plugs, horizontal mounting etc). I'd like to see pictures of your kits installed.

Yeah, I've lost sleep thinking about ignition stuff.

RotaryRyan

Maybe you have one of those middle of the night come milk your cow dry thieves and you cant get any milk, so you go to the store.

leif

ok...can i please have my thread back...thanks...ok...you guys know about direct fire...could you please answer some of my questions.

sorry V8 killer but i like to make my own things...

thanks

elwood

iTrader: (1)

What's a 6320 coil? Who makes it? Why is it better?

leif

ok, so noone is going to help me with this? come on guys, im just asking you to recomend a few threads which will point me in the right direction.

thanks

BooStiN2BaRz

its not too hard what you need:2ed gen leading coil, ballest frome the 2ed gen coil( white rectangle with two wires going to it inside the box behind the coil) then you run the +wire from the leading ignitor to the + on the 2ed gen coil(with the ballest in line)then you run the - wire from leading ignitor to the - on the 2ed gen coil, then run your power and ground wires from the old coil to the 2ed gen. then put your plug wires on the 2ed gen coil to the leading plugs.you can now swap all your traling plug wires to the leading position(same with coil wire)on the dizy so u can take advantage of the carbon button.....hope this helps.

V8kilr

Let us know what you want to spend and we can help


Theres so many possiblities that no one wants to list them all.

Do you want the cheapest possible setup, something in the middle, or something like a full blown msd setup *roughly* $200

V8kilr

Oh yeah here


http://www.seriousre.com/slidfis

http://www.seriousre.com/dlidfis

http://www.seriousre.com/msddfis


Those are all from my website

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

You should do two more diagrams featuring an FC leading coil. One with a J-109 and the ballast resistor, and another with the MSD and no ballast resistor.

Better yet, use your leading J-109 to trigger the stock FC leading ignitor. It will result in a better spark and have correct dwell. The FC ignitor does not have a dwell function appearantly.

Note: I know of no one who's tried this yet.

BooStiN2BaRz

the fc ignitor is controlled by the ecu.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

You are correct, sir! And because it is normally controlled by an ECU, it is considered dumb. That's why a J-109 can be used to trigger it. A resistor must be used to bring the switched 12V down to something closer to 5V. I think it was 1k ohm or something like that?

leif

ok thanks guys, you gave me a good place to begin...

V8kilr

Ill look into it, I wish I could find the specs sheets on all the mazda ignitors

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I don't know if you've seen this yet. 83turbo seems to know what he's talking about concerning 2nd gen ignition stuff. http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...howtopic=40326

V8kilr

I read the thread and see his worry is about ignition dwell.

I havent given much thought to the dwell because the iginition system on the rx7's I am designing this system for (non points style) is a CDI style ignition system which the coils act more like transformer then a storage inductor.
Which means that the spark duration by nature is going to be shorter and the types of coils used have a higher Rise times over older coils.

Dwell is extremely important in a points style igniton because at higher rpm the points tend to "float" which causes a shorter dwell.

With our electronic distributors this "Point Floating" problem does not exist.



Now on the other hand having a longer dwell does increase spark duration and also increases the amount of power a coil stores, when the coil is at its peak charge the rest of the power is left just heating up the coil, this is a bad thing.

I believe their is sufficient dwell from the leading ignitor to directly trigger the leading coil with no need for increased dwell.

however I could be wrong, but I do not have the thousands of $$$$ in equipment to test that theory.

I did read a little about the ignition control section of the stock 2nd gen ECU and couldnt find any information on the dwell timming, so as far as I know the stock 2nd gen ECU only controls the actual spark timming, advance and retard to variables, etc...


Let me know if you have any more information on it and I will look into it further.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

His info caused me to change my plans. I'm probably repeating myself, but I originally planned on using the leading ignitor on the trailing coil. I then decided to use the trailing ignitor on the trailing coil because he said it it had dwell. Either way, I got both FC coils for free so I'm open to anything.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

leif

silly question......does direct fire still use both plugs in each ousing?