woodonastick

iTrader: (1)

i am thinking of getting springs. i read on the forum about cutting the rear in half would double the spring rate. my friend doesn't believe it. we just dont know how cutting springs can make it stiffer.

can anyone explain?

superslydr

im not sure how it works but here is how i explain it....example:for every coil on the spring you have 1/4 inch of movement........you have 8 coils which makes up a total of 2 inches of movement, you cut two coils off it moves your movement area down to 1 1/2 inches...now what happens if you have less movement???stiffer ride.....and to explain that think of a ford escort and a chey corvette......the escort has more suspension travel resulting in longer smoother bumps......the corvette has less suspension travel resulting in shorter harder bumps....................and if you cant understand none of that just take my word for it........cut your springs and you'll find out its true about them being stiffer

vizion47

Jesus Just Get Eibachs...cutting It Will Definetly Weaken The Springs Tinsle Strength, And That Cant Be Safe Right?

woodonastick

iTrader: (1)

i don't like the idea of progressive springs. i want a predictable ride.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Wrong, wrong wrong.

By cutting the springs you are reducing the # of coils, thereby reducing the total sq. in. into which you transfer and absorb energy.

For example: If you have 10 coils and each has 1/2" sq. cross section, then your total availible spring is 5 sq. in. If you cut 2 coils out, you now have 4 sq. in. in which to absorb the same amount of load. You have effectively reduced your spring rate 20%. (give or take)

To put it in simpler terms, is it easier to bend a 4" or 5" steel rod?

Lowering springs are either thicker in the cross section, have more coils or both. Cutting the springs makes the ride softer and sloppier, and the car will bottom out easier.

creativepunka

well i cut my civic springs about 2inchs and i couldnt believe how well it handles. ands its hard not soft ride

rotary emotions

cutting springs is the most stupid way of lowering a car. In some cases it can make sense, but ONLY if you know what you are doing. Most of the times the spring will be weakened/softer after cutting, it'll never get harder. So it's never the best solution, but sometimes you can get away with it.
Like stated by some people above, just get aftermarket ones. They are not that expensive anyway.

Latin270

Hey I cut my rear springs to level the car stance and it made the ride much stiffer! Takes corners alot better too! Whats the big deal? I've been riding like this for years! Back in the day thats all we had, no fancy springs. So this what we did. ONly cut half of a coil off and you will notice, at list in my opinion a nice improvement!

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

Cutting spring does not make them softer, it makes them stiffer.

Trochoid gave the best example, a longer rod is easier to bend than a shorter rod and all a spring is is (grammar?) a rod bent into coils and the more you cut off the shorter it is and the stiffer it gets.

It is, however, only the best solution for someone that know what they are doing as many times, to make it work properly you have to heat the end of the spring to bend the last coil so that it will set in the spring seat properly, when you do this you REALLY get into issues with the metal losing its temper and becoming brittle and that can be dangerous.

I have seen occasions where this was done and it caused each side of the car to have slightly different spring rates and made it handle horribly,

cut springs are stiffer.

Zyrano

Here is another issue, the fact that our "stock" springs are already 20+ years old, by making them even lower, they don't have a lot of travel what so ever. My car came with stock cut springs (it was extremely short), and they would almost fall out if i hit a big enough bump.

Gregs

i heard compressing the coils makes them a tad stiffer and doesnt give you that bouncy *** ride of cutting the coils off

Wankelguy

Another bad idea rears it's ugly head.

Compressing the coils makes them prone to coil binding.

evil_motors

iTrader: (3)

yeah just ask my sister .. her ex cut the springs on her eclipse.. so when i got it last summer i had to put all new suspension and new half shafts in because it tore everything up.. for the money you will have to spend replacing your suspension you should just buy lowering springs.. it saves alot in the long run

797

just get eibachs or something properly made to be lowered. I dont care if you people think your car is stiffer with them cut, your probably bottoming out. The only reason you would cut them is just to get the look of it being lowered. If you dont care about ride quality and/or performance cut them. Ask the guys who road race there cars if they just simply cut the springs and see what they have to say if you dont already know the answer.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Racing Beat has springs that don't break the bank, they're almost an inch drop and they stiffen the car properly. They're great. I would never, EVER consider cutting my springs. There has been a lot of research and development put behind the springs you buy, be they stock, lowered or otherwise. It's not a good idea to mess with something without properly understanding the work behind it. Our springs are a certain thickness, with a certain number of coils, spaced a certain distance apart for a reason. Cutting them for "performance" just doesn't make any sense. Sure it'll lower the centre of gravity, but you have to compensate for the shorter travel distance, among other things.

Buy the racingbeat springs or leave yours alone!

Jon

Latin270

Everything we do for our cars is for "performance" hence the word "modifications"

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

I removed my rat's nest and my air pump. Hp Gain: 0 Torque Gain: 0 Considered a "modification": Yes For Performance: No

And I don't think cutting springs improves performance, though I would definitely call it a modification. I don't see how the two words are specifically related. Dictionary.com seems to agree with me, since one is not a synanom for the other, nor do they share any common definition.

Jon

jgrewe

iTrader: (1)

Save your money, cut the springs, just do the math first.http://www.not2fast.com/chassis/spring_rate.shtml Before we could get the spring rate we wanted and the free height we wanted in the same spring we cut the stock rear springs to the length that gave us the rate we wanted, then we made spacers to add to one end to get the free height we were looking for.
Cut the spring with an exhaust cutoff tool not a torch, then if you have a torch heat up the cut end to flatten it a little bit. The bottom of the springs don't have to be totally flat because of the shape of the perches (fr or rr). Just remember your looking for free coils that are doing the work so you have to add how much length the perch will hold to your # of free coils for the math to be correct.

Just to clarify, springs get stiffer as you cut coils off of them. The problems can start if you try to go too far (stiff) and overload what the metal itself can take. The other common problem is the spring free height shortens so much that static ride height drops to a point that even the stiff spring can't keep the car from bottoming.

Then controling those springs becomes an issue with street shocks, but thats another issue.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

I cut the springs in my FB and it not only makes it look good, but it also made it ride stiffer.

I"m never spending money on lowering springs again, I'll just cut the stock ones for free!

evil_motors

iTrader: (3)

man i am so gonna laugh at all of you when you have to replace your suspension in about a year.. not to mention strut mounts.. maybe weld in some new strut towers.... all to save a buck right now.. cheap asses

shm21284

The only reason why it's "stiffer" is because you all are hitting the bump stops. Read the post that THROCHOID wrote. Nah **** it. Most of the people here are too lazy to scroll up and read, so here it is:

And EVILMOTORS is right, have fun replacing suspension pieces soon.

Oh, and you all may experience "stiffer" springs when you guys cut the closely wound part of the spring off. It's still the backyard, hillbilly way of doing it. Not to mention half assed.

steve84GS TII

If you lower the front more than 1-1.5" your gonna bottom your struts and ruin the shocks,........that is if you dont lose control and crash.Once the shocks bottom out you have ZERO suspension compliance,hence you have very little control over what the front of the car does.Thats why aftemarket springs are usually only .75-1" shorter than stock,IN ADDITION to being much stiffer than the stockers were 25 years and 150K miles ago.
If you want big drop in the front,then use RB's strut relocater.It raises the strut top and retains suspension geometry.Combined with some 1" drop springs,itll slam a 1st gen down like a cheesy lowrider.
In the back,use RB springs with deadwound coils.You can cut all the height you want out of deadwounds and it wont hurt a thing.

Do it right or do it wrong,its your choice,but its also your safety and your car's well being, too.

Kentetsu

Wow, hard to believe that amount of misinformation in this thread. Take my advice, buy a good book on the subject of suspension and performance handling and read the damn thing! A good one to look for is "How to make your car handle". Has all the technical information, but you don't need to be an expert to understand it. I've bought three copies over the last 15 years because my buddies won't return them after I loan them out... Another excellent book that touches on suspension theory (but is mostly on driving) is by Bob Bondurant, I believe its called High Performance Driving or something like that (I loaned that one out too. lol).

Cutting a coil or two off your springs WILL make the ride stiffer, end of story. One thing to consider though is that this will change the working position of the struts/shocks. The internal seals will be running over a new part of the shaft, which will wear those seals out in short order. The same theory can hold true for suspension bushings, etc. That's why so many people have to replace suspension parts after completing this type of modification.

If you want to lower your car, but don't want a stiffer ride, you can shorten the springs without cutting them. This is done by compressing the spring and placing it in a warm oven (sorry, I don't remember the temp/time recommended for this), when you take it out and let it cool, it will be a bit shorter. Chances are it will take a few times before you get it right, but it does work.

Woodonastick; My advice to you would be to take a look at your struts first. If you want a stiffer ride and improved performance start there, unless the struts are already new. After that, then take a look at aftermarket springs. I do not recommend that you cut your springs unless you have a lot of experience in doing it. Save your money and do it right the first time. This is assuming that you have a decent 7. If its a junkyard-bound beater car anyway, then by all means get that hacksaw going! lol.

woodonastick

iTrader: (1)

excellent information guys. nice to hear lots of things cleared up.

im thinkinking of rb springs with tokico blues

or

isc 350 and 150 rear with illuminas

only problem.... money.....

i heard that 350 springs will be too much of a load for the tokico blues.

anyone try any of these set ups?

evil_motors

iTrader: (3)

i am definately glad you chose to go with real springs.. good for you... im glad some people listen to good advice