CHEF_EG_1

Well, here we go again with some more paper planning..... I'm sure there will be discrepancies and arguments, but here goes.....


The idea of a 4 rotor 23A has been changed.... slightly.
I am now going with the 4 rotor 26B. Why you ask? For the simple fact of the numbers that need to be put down to get this car through the air. I will be needing WELL over 800hp to get my goal, and this is going to be a LOT harder (read: expensive) with two 12A's than it will be with two 13B's. Plus, I have the option of the higher compression (9.7:1) rotors in the 13B platform.

Running the car on a bridgeported engine with Holley carbs hasn't completely been scrapped, but definitely changed.


I'm going to go for Peripheral Port. While pretty much guaranteeing Street Illegality, at this point, I don't care. I wanna go fast, and I don't care how loud it is.... even if it will make people's ears bleed, and crack windshields.


The 2-200 shots of nitrous have been scrapped for 1-500 shot of it.

The fuel pump will be a 350gallon per hour unit designed to have enough juice for 2000hp.

The car will be airbagged, and sitting approximately 3/4" - 1" off the surface of the salt.

NOCONES, I need you to find the info for that guy with the 15x4.5" wheels. I will also need to find some 16x6" wheels.


I am hoping to save some of the money by doing it myself, and figuring stuff out with the "live and learn" mentality. Caveman logic (bang the hell out something until it fits) will also be employed.




















And the part that's REALLY breaking my heart...























It's probably not gonna happen until August 2004.

Chemical

are you sponsored.. if so, who?
this sounds like a big project lol

Fennix_sr

All I have to say is... the best of luck to ya man... I wanna someday see that thing in person... who knows maybe it will be on speed channle or somethin, I know that thing is gonna be baddass...

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

I don't think even Mazda's own Race-Developed 26B had 800 HP from the 26B.

You know you can easily get 800 hp from a turbocharged 3 rotor. There's guys over here getting over 700 from 13B's.

Wow...I didn't see that one coming...

No offense, but I have well over 15k into my car already, and that's not counting the rest of the tires, painting, safety gear, etc... - And she's not even running yet (but soon).

a 4 Rotor is ridiculously expensive, (if even available) and will haze ZERO tolerance for errors if that's what you're planning.

syklone

Chef, I really want to believe that this thng will come off great, but I really, really, REALLY, doubt you will ever get anywhere without some serious backing/ lotery winnings. In the end, I envision a shell with no motor and a enough housings lying around to make a 26b, and a fist full of recepts totalling at least 5k before reality sets in.

BUT: I do love the fact that you are persuing it, even though it goes against my judgement of how to spend 30k+. Good luck and I love reading the updates. I do hope this gets off the ground (figuratively, not like the racing beat car did)

CHEF_EG_1

So many doubters....




....it's to be expected though. People doubted Wankel when he designed a piston-less motor.




And I know you all mean well, that's why I come here so often. I also know many of you are trying to be realists, instead of being optimists.



I'm too hard-headed to give up on this. And even if I am 5grand deep, with a shell and a fist full of receipts.... I'm still confident that it could get done someday.





And for the record.... as even more ludicrous as it sounds.... I wanna keep the whole project under 30K.... preferably under 20K. But, that's some SERIOUS optimism.

Manntis

thing is, it didn't cost Felix much to draw up schematics, then when he went to prototype phase he had some serious financial backing....

JEC-31

Oh man you have got it BAD.

Anyway, you need either sponsorship or a good lottery ticket. That's a simple fact, 'cause a land-speed car with a one-off uber-rotary is going to set you back way more than 30K by the time you fire it up.

I have a suggestion: start small.

You must learn to walk before running faster than everybody, grasshopper.

A sponsor is not going to say, "Great Idea! Here's a blank check!"
They're going to ask nice questions like "So how experienced are you at Salt Flat racing?" and "How many proven high-hp motors have you already built?"

I would recommend starting your journey with learning the ropes. Build an ordinary 13B peripheral port, and go out to Utah and see how far you can push it. Use the real world for your wind tunnel. Test yourself and your chassis, taking notes and tweaking what the budget allows. Learn.
When you've racked up some respect in that scene, you'll be older and wiser and know what you have to do to step up to the 4-rotor level, and as an experienced and dedicated land-speeder you'll be more attractive to a sponsor.

Then it's time to build the mother of all 4-rotors!

Just my .02!
- Josh

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I doubt you, but mazda spent like 400 million dollars, thats $400,000,000 designing a 4 rotor... Godd luck man, I seriously doubt you will ever complete it, but thats fuel for the fire... Make me a beleiver

CHEF_EG_1

I never said I WASN'T going to Bonneville ths year with a car.... I just said it's highly improbable it will be with the 4 rotor.



the 20B option hasn't even been explored yet. For now, the only 20B I am banking on (figuratively and literally, my loan is still pending)... is going in the `94 929 that I am also waiting on the loan to clear for.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

just thought i would come out of the shadows to stop snickering and say good luck. and you might want to find a new job and make lots of new friends. rich friends.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Yeah no doubt you'll need bill gates for this venture

fatboy7

Naw, picking up a 4 rotor and making it run will probably be in the 20k budget.... making it last 24 hrs at high rpm, thats where the 400 million was dropped. 20k though is a serious underestimate if you include the aero tuning and suspension that will also be required. If you were able to make all the aero pieces yourself using fiber you could probably do it for 5k or so, if you don't do too many iterations.... but then time becomes the factor.... a custom job with windtunnel tunning.... that alone will probably be close to 20k. Then you have the suspension, and stability controls.

I've been to boneville, the cars that race more often then not have some good money backing them.... they are fast because they've been at it for a while. I don't expect even with an 800 hp 4-rotor, that the competition will just roll over and play dead, and that assumes you have a system that can handle the harsh conditions of racing at 200 mph...

Shoot for the goal, but be realistic in your cost. Go over everything, consider every detail. There is a reason that some have spent $$$$$ on their three rotor conversions, I can't imagine the cost of a 4-rotor system.

CHEF_EG_1

The wind tunnel tuning and time is being done as a co-senior thesis (one from Illinois Wesleyan Univ., and one from the Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign). They are both using it as their final project. If anything, the CAD drawings will be done by April.

If I did my math correctly, the main piece that's holding me back from putting it all together is the goddamn E-shaft. That's like 1900 from Pineapple, unless MarvelSpeed can do it cheaper (I'm turning to him to do a LOT of the machining and porting and stuff).


The suspension.... airbags. I know, I know... but not only will it give me an almost instant drop, and instant adjustability, there's a lot of "shibby" factor attached to it.


And make no mistake about it... I'm not expecting it to last thousands upon thousands of miles. If anything.... I'd be completely content with getting the record, and finding out the motor popped from it. 2 runs.... that's all I'm looking for.... and an average of 264mph. THAT'S ALL. If it means having to push the car back on the trailer, and make it a trailer queen until I get enough money to do it again, then so be it. All I want is the record. I'm not looking to go for any endurance races.



And 800hp is my goal from motor alone. Don't forget the 500 shot of giggle gas.

Redwood

Oh, just the record? Hehe, just messing with ya. I look forward to seeing this thing somewhere down the road. With any luck, your car will be in the posts of newbies with the title "What car is this!?!?" and will show up once a week. Good luck and god speed (hehe, pardon the pun )

zyounker

Ok, i guess i should say something here.


The 4 rotor will probably happen with kurgan and my help.. hell no one believed we would do the 20B FC.. And we have actually had ours running and it really only took us 90 hours of work. Most of it was waiting for money.


Now, onto the the speed record. I really don't believe this will ever happen. Sorry chef, but it is really far fetched..


Now, I am willing to try and make it happen, hell building a 4 rotor and putting it in a car will be worth it alone..



-Zach

metalliman

I strongly agree with JEC-31, you might be better off building a peripheral ported 13B to start out with. There's many mistakes that can be made in rebuilding an engine, better to make one of these mistakes on a $2000 motor as opposed to a $20000 motor (or more).

Here's a few other thoughts too. You may want to try running Webers, instead of Holleys. They produce less low end torque, but are capable of making more high end horsepower with the right intake manifold.

But then again, this is your dream, so do this however you like.

metalliman

One other thought Chef, you say you want about 800 HP. I believe a peripheral ported 13B produces at best 285 HP + 500 HP shot of N20 = 785 HP. Dont know if you'd actually get two runs out of that or not though. :-)

zyounker

We are not gonna built it actually, don marvel most likely will...


-Zach

i_piss_on_hondas

I have responded on a thread you previously made about this in the past... unless you get a e-shaft that has been cast as a 4 rotor e-shaft your going to snap it like a twig running a large shot of nitrous... as far as the nitrous goes... 500 shot for over a minute is going to be NEXT TO IMPOSSABLE!!! People have a hard time running a 250 shot for 9 sec... as long as your running the older motors I don’t think it will be to expensive to build a block... its replacing the blocks you blow up this will start digging into your pocket book... AND YOU WILL BLOW THEM UP!!! if I were you I would get a few 4 rotors built and play with them... throw them into your car try to get sponsored... get some exp. I don’t know how much exp. you have with building 4 rotor engines... see what kind of problems you have... like the people said you must walk before you can run... as far as the 20b's go there going to run more then a 4 rotor... gasket sets cost ALOT for them... and cores are expensive as hell... let me say this again YOU WILL BLOW UP MOTORS... you take out a 2nd mortgage on your house put throw down 7k on a turbo and a build on 1 20b and blow it up your out a motor and your out a turbo... I like your idea... you just have to take it one step at a time...

CHEF_EG_1

ahh, but 285x2 = 570. still short, but better. 570+500 = 1070.


My goal is 1300hp total (hence the 800hp fro m the motor, and 500 from the n2o.).



And yes, Don Marvel will be doing most of the engine build. I trust him a LOT more than I trust myself to do it.


Our biggest challenges, as I forsee them, other than the obvious dollar crisis, are as follows:

It WILL happen. I'm too hard headed to give up on it.

CHEF_EG_1

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...


The nitrous is a last resort for when the engine's power just simply *is not enough*.


And yes, I WILL need it, and I will need that much of it if I plan on getting the record.

i_piss_on_hondas

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CHEF_EG_1



I've said it before, and I'll say it again...


The nitrous is a last resort for when the engine's power just simply *is not enough*.


And yes, I WILL need it, and I will need that much of it if I plan on getting the record. [/QUOTE

Like I said man... its going to be next to impossible to tune... a 500shot... especially for long periods of time... have you ever tuned a large hp shot of n20 before??? anyone ever hear of anything over a 200shot being used for long periods of time?

CHEF_EG_1

but it *won't be* for long periods of time.... I'm trying to make you realize that. It will be a kick in the *** at the very end.... not juiced for the whole run.

Project84

Thats a big kick in the ***