brake booster begone
05-12-08, 08:00 AM
#5
Not exactly sure why you wouldn't want power brakes, but either way there isn't going to be a master cylinder that will just bolt right up and work without it. You would need to make some kind of bracket and custome linkage to make the stock one work on there...
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05-12-08, 11:10 AM
#9
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05-12-08, 11:14 AM
#10
Does not matter if you could squat a building.
Without power assist the car is unsafe and would not stop in a timely manner. Modern brake systems were not designed to be used without power assist for safe stopping distances.
quote=Vin;8182926]Well...
I can do a few 505lb competition squats in a row...[/quote]
Without power assist the car is unsafe and would not stop in a timely manner. Modern brake systems were not designed to be used without power assist for safe stopping distances.
quote=Vin;8182926]Well...
I can do a few 505lb competition squats in a row...[/quote]
i can bench 260 too does not mean i crawl under a car with only a jack under it
05-12-08, 12:16 PM
#14
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It's common to retrofit a master cylinder designed for unassisted braking when racing because it allows the driver greater sensitivity. I've never had a problem doing it on a VW...
05-12-08, 01:43 PM
#17
I hate drum brakes
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Back when I had my CRX, eliminating the booster was a fairly common mod, because the car weighed less than 1800 pounds dry. I also see it done on VWs quite a bit. You need to make sure you source a properly sized MC, and ditch the stock one.
Now I've never done it myself, or probably ever will, but with a properly sized MC, you should not have to put a huge amount of effort into stopping the car, and you should have greater pedal feel.
See the box behind the MC? (this is the only picture I have, I used to have one of the MC setup on a '76 Rabbit that was booster-less stock)
Now I've never done it myself, or probably ever will, but with a properly sized MC, you should not have to put a huge amount of effort into stopping the car, and you should have greater pedal feel.
See the box behind the MC? (this is the only picture I have, I used to have one of the MC setup on a '76 Rabbit that was booster-less stock)
05-12-08, 01:59 PM
#19
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No, the master cylinder is bolted on to the brake booster. It's as simple as unbolting it and bolting it to the firewall, at most it will make your brkae pedal sit closer to you, what you can do to remedy that is just shorten the linkage a little bit and your done.
05-12-08, 02:10 PM
#20
There is no linkage if you remove the booster, the rod that attaches to the pedal is part of the booster, if you remove the booster its gone and you will have to make a new one.... And its more like 3-4 inches and yes I know that brake lines bend easily I've made dozens, but its still something to consider. The short line going to the left front wheel will definatly have to be redone, there is no way you could stretch it enough...
05-12-08, 08:35 PM
#25
I've done manual brakes on an all disc car before. What you'll need is some calculations comparing the piston area of your master cylinder to the piston area of your calipers. This will give you an idea of the force required at the MC. You will need to factor in the pedal ratio (distance from the pivot point to the MC divided by the distance from the pivot point to the center of the pedal). What you'll probably find is that with the original MC, you'll need a very big pedal ratio to keep the efforts in a reasonable range (and yes, I can squat a lot too).
To get a feel for what your stock setup feels like without the vacuum assist and your stock pedal ratio, find a vacant lot, disconnect the vacuum line to the booster, plug it so your car will run, get it up to say 10 mph, and try the brakes. You probably won't like it (and remember you can use the hand brake or turn off the engine to stop you too).
The bigger issue you may encounter is keeping everything rigid enough to take full advantage of the manual setup. The dash panel (fire wall) is likely to flex unmercifully unless you reinforce it significantly. On my setup, I braced the MC directly to the strut tower bar.
In all reality, you probably gain more from eliminating the prop valve and going to a dual MC setup with a balance bar -- although you typically can't get this without ditching the booster first.
I liked the higher effort setup. We used a twin MC Tilton setup with a different pedal ratio and smaller MC bore to keep efforts reasonable. Once I got used to it, I was more able to keep it at the verge of lockup.
To get a feel for what your stock setup feels like without the vacuum assist and your stock pedal ratio, find a vacant lot, disconnect the vacuum line to the booster, plug it so your car will run, get it up to say 10 mph, and try the brakes. You probably won't like it (and remember you can use the hand brake or turn off the engine to stop you too).
The bigger issue you may encounter is keeping everything rigid enough to take full advantage of the manual setup. The dash panel (fire wall) is likely to flex unmercifully unless you reinforce it significantly. On my setup, I braced the MC directly to the strut tower bar.
In all reality, you probably gain more from eliminating the prop valve and going to a dual MC setup with a balance bar -- although you typically can't get this without ditching the booster first.
I liked the higher effort setup. We used a twin MC Tilton setup with a different pedal ratio and smaller MC bore to keep efforts reasonable. Once I got used to it, I was more able to keep it at the verge of lockup.