Brainstorming on Engine Mounting Issue
09-28-08, 08:54 PM
#27
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Back from my visit to Arcata, CA... Humboldt University is interesting to say the least... in any case.
I was wondering if anyone else had a picture of a stripped GSL-SE/12A front cover and a S4/S5 front cover?
I was wondering if anyone else had a picture of a stripped GSL-SE/12A front cover and a S4/S5 front cover?
09-29-08, 07:18 AM
#28
Oh sorry man, been so busy working on my FC I haven't been on here much. It's really nothing too elaborate, just a few pieces of metal that bolt to the rear stud of the crossmember and one of the steering box/idler arm bolts... Again it only works if you have the RE-speed rack and pinion kit since that moves all the steering to the front of the crossmember. Unless you get real creative it's not going to work with stock steering.
I will get you pics if you really want them but I think you're making this more complicated than it has to be. The S4 engine swap is very easy as far as getting the engine in the car, just a SE oil pan and front cover, or a 12a Front cover and viola your done... It's the S5 swap that gets more complicated (if you want to keep the stock ECU that is....)
I will get you pics if you really want them but I think you're making this more complicated than it has to be. The S4 engine swap is very easy as far as getting the engine in the car, just a SE oil pan and front cover, or a 12a Front cover and viola your done... It's the S5 swap that gets more complicated (if you want to keep the stock ECU that is....)
10-10-08, 06:21 PM
#29
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Here's a really crazy idea that hit me the other day...
What if you welded in an aluminum support on S4 front cover where the mounts on the S3 engine would be. The mounting points where the bolts go in match up to those fins and the actual material is about half an inch thicker than the fins on the S4
GSL-SE Cover:
Planned mods to S4 Cover:
What if you welded in an aluminum support on S4 front cover where the mounts on the S3 engine would be. The mounting points where the bolts go in match up to those fins and the actual material is about half an inch thicker than the fins on the S4
GSL-SE Cover:
Planned mods to S4 Cover:
10-10-08, 08:52 PM
#30
Are you really that strapped for cash that you can't buy a FB front cover (again both the 12a and 13b one will work) and just be done with it or are you just itching to modify something? 
I don't mean to be a jerk, but you are way over thinking the whole thing, and if you are that low on money you might want to wait until you can do the job properly, it will be better in the long run...
I don't mean to be a jerk, but you are way over thinking the whole thing, and if you are that low on money you might want to wait until you can do the job properly, it will be better in the long run...
10-10-08, 09:34 PM
#31
aint a rotor aint a motor
agree with you 82transam!!!!!!!!!
your definately not a jerk mate!!!!!!!!!!!
why try to backyard engineer/modify/fabricate something
especially when it can be done with bolt on parts
your way over thinking a simple solultion to a tried and proven method
I think mazdas original engine mounting solution is better...somehow
why blaze a trail through a dense forest 3 feet from the beaten path????
I think you should start a thread:
WTD: free front cover for T2 conversion
If you cant afford the cover, i was just wondering how your goin to pay for the fuel once the motor is in though?????
your definately not a jerk mate!!!!!!!!!!!
why try to backyard engineer/modify/fabricate something
especially when it can be done with bolt on parts
your way over thinking a simple solultion to a tried and proven method
I think mazdas original engine mounting solution is better...somehow
why blaze a trail through a dense forest 3 feet from the beaten path????
I think you should start a thread:
WTD: free front cover for T2 conversion
If you cant afford the cover, i was just wondering how your goin to pay for the fuel once the motor is in though?????
10-10-08, 09:37 PM
#32
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Are you really that strapped for cash that you can't buy a FB front cover (again both the 12a and 13b one will work) and just be done with it or are you just itching to modify something? I don't mean to be a jerk, but you are way over thinking the whole thing, and if you are that low on money you might want to wait until you can do the job properly, it will be better in the long run...
I don't mean to be a jerk, but you are way over thinking the whole thing, and if you are that low on money you might want to wait until you can do the job properly, it will be better in the long run...The biggest problem I have is not as much cash, I was able to scrap up some funds.
BUT the biggest issue is time, I don't have the time to keep waiting for a GSL-SE front cover with an efficient OMP. In fact I am trying to get started on rebuilding my RX7.
Keep in mind the only place I have to work right now, is kind of on loan.
So I really either need to find the parts I need or I need to start modifying the parts to fit properly. So what do you think of that bone brained idea?
10-10-08, 09:38 PM
#33
djessence
fuel is cheap nowadays. Dropped 10 cents this week and then another 2 cents on my drive home tonight......
But agreed with both above. simplify, dont overthink and itll be better in the long run. and the short run.
Still think the idea is a little wack, as its going to be expensive and difficult to get it right in the long run, and take way more time than fronting like 40 bucks for a cover.
But agreed with both above. simplify, dont overthink and itll be better in the long run. and the short run.
Still think the idea is a little wack, as its going to be expensive and difficult to get it right in the long run, and take way more time than fronting like 40 bucks for a cover.
10-10-08, 10:20 PM
#35
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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Don't get me wrong, I would rather do the bolt-on deal and just get it done with, but if you read the points I set at the beginning of the thread, I am under specific constraints. Money isn't as much an issue as it was before. But TIME is.
...the biggest problem I am having right now is locating these parts:
1.) GSL-SE Front cover in the BAY AREA, CA
2.) GSL-SE Fuel Tank also in the Bay Area, CA
If I wasn't on such a time constraint then I wouldn't waste my time trying to find another solution.
Like I said I only have this work spot for a specific amount of time, if I am not able to make at least a rolling chassis within that time frame. Well lets not think about that shall we?
...the biggest problem I am having right now is locating these parts:
1.) GSL-SE Front cover in the BAY AREA, CA
2.) GSL-SE Fuel Tank also in the Bay Area, CA
If I wasn't on such a time constraint then I wouldn't waste my time trying to find another solution.
Like I said I only have this work spot for a specific amount of time, if I am not able to make at least a rolling chassis within that time frame. Well lets not think about that shall we?
10-10-08, 10:25 PM
#36
Old [Sch|F]ool
I've even passed emissions with timing locked at 22 degrees... HC skyrockets with increased timing, which is why it is so retarded in the Federal Test Loop section.
10-10-08, 10:44 PM
#37
aint a rotor aint a motor
yes i did read all your points and arguments for modifying/welding due to cost restrictions of $50.00 per part have welder and are working on borrowed space and time.......
im sure if your time permits you,
ring around the vast number of rotary workshops in the US
or start a thread on here
WTB: urgent front cover with OPM, have cash, but need parts urgent
someone somewhere hopefully close to you , will be dying to get rid a cover for less than $50
your trying soo hard to make this work your way??????
and you say you cant find a cover????? sorry but that is a bullshit excuse
and u live in the U.S.....there would be millions of covers out there
put your dollars and efforts into chasing a front cover.....
they dont have legs and wont come running to you
your finding your way hard to do because it is not the done thing.....
with all the thought effort and time spent brainstorming a modification, thats
unnecessary, you could have chased a front cover, bolted it on, installed the engine and been smokin rubber by now!!!!!!!!!
im sure if your time permits you,
ring around the vast number of rotary workshops in the US
or start a thread on here
WTB: urgent front cover with OPM, have cash, but need parts urgent
someone somewhere hopefully close to you , will be dying to get rid a cover for less than $50
your trying soo hard to make this work your way??????
and you say you cant find a cover????? sorry but that is a bullshit excuse
and u live in the U.S.....there would be millions of covers out there
put your dollars and efforts into chasing a front cover.....
they dont have legs and wont come running to you
your finding your way hard to do because it is not the done thing.....
with all the thought effort and time spent brainstorming a modification, thats
unnecessary, you could have chased a front cover, bolted it on, installed the engine and been smokin rubber by now!!!!!!!!!
10-11-08, 12:51 AM
#38
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Just use the 12A front cover and don't premix, then. Like I said before, it's the same oil volume. If you really care that much, tee the lines to go into all four nipples, but it really doesn't make a difference.
10-11-08, 07:55 AM
#40
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A couple points need to be addressed, as far as welding on a 2nd gen front cover.
First, welding the cover to the extent that will be needed to add enough material for the bolt holes, will likely distort the cover to the point that stopping the oil leaks will be rather difficult. It could even lead to a cracked cover when you try to bolt it on the engine.
This welding could also make the material to brittle, and could lead to the bolt holes holding up the engine breaking off the cover. I'm not real sure, but I don't think having the engine fall to the crossmember and start flopping around would be much fun.
Secondly, the S4 front cover is notorious for having difficulties sealing around the oil passage that leads to the oil cooler. I believe the S5 cover has some issues here as well.
Why not do as everyone has suggested and find a 12A cover/OMP assembly, and be done with it. You could prolly find one thru the classified section for well under $50. Which, by the way, is likely less than a tank of gas............
First, welding the cover to the extent that will be needed to add enough material for the bolt holes, will likely distort the cover to the point that stopping the oil leaks will be rather difficult. It could even lead to a cracked cover when you try to bolt it on the engine.
This welding could also make the material to brittle, and could lead to the bolt holes holding up the engine breaking off the cover. I'm not real sure, but I don't think having the engine fall to the crossmember and start flopping around would be much fun.
Secondly, the S4 front cover is notorious for having difficulties sealing around the oil passage that leads to the oil cooler. I believe the S5 cover has some issues here as well.
Why not do as everyone has suggested and find a 12A cover/OMP assembly, and be done with it. You could prolly find one thru the classified section for well under $50. Which, by the way, is likely less than a tank of gas............
10-11-08, 10:29 AM
#41
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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My only concern with using 12A cover was retaining a functioning OMP without having to premix.
But since it seems that I can do that and still not have to premix, I may just salvage the front cover off my 12A and use it.
But since it seems that I can do that and still not have to premix, I may just salvage the front cover off my 12A and use it.
10-11-08, 01:37 PM
#42
As PercentSevenC said you can use the 12a cover and omp just split the lines to go to the 4 FC locations, or just cap the 2 on the intake manifold and just run the ones on the iron, you'll be fine. As far as making the engine mount line up just slot the holes on the crossmember 20mm or so and be done with it.
10-26-08, 11:30 AM
#43
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Demon, Im sorta in the same predicament. Only Im itching to fabricate some stuff to make this swap as painless as possible for others so all you have to do is buy my mounts and everything is bolt up. Only that wont work cause I would have to cut and weld the stock oil pan. So that will no longer make it a simple bolt on system. I also looked at buying some square stock aluminum. drill, tap, and weld four 1x1 peices, but this is cast aluminum and burns REALLY easiely and is kinda thin. I dont feel comfortable with the idea as I worry that after a few big bumps and some "spirited" driving the mounts would break off. So while Im still toying with idea's. Truly the best, cheapest, easiest way for the time being is simply to get the gslse pan and front cover. as long as your engine is s4, you will be in the clear, and no single part of it should cost you more then 50 shipped.
10-26-08, 12:08 PM
#44
djessence
You are just not listening. It has been stated a couple times you CAN use a 12 OMP. Same oil output and as stated before you can tee the lines and get it to go to all 4 nipples. Or jut use it as is and have it go to 2 and block off 2.
10-27-08, 10:15 AM
#46
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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I don't like appliances... (Hondas)
In any case, If GSL-SE Front covers aren't supposed to cost more than $50 shipped then I'm finding the wrong people. LoL
I'm going to hold off on the engine mounting thing for a bit anyways... I need to deal with the more important emissions and actually getting the shell rolling.
Spyride- That's what I was afraid of, I figured the cast Aluminium was going to cause problems, thanks for verifying it...
Also I'll probably have the engine out of my truck to do a clutch job for class (Its already got the tranny off of itand stuff soeasy peezy...
) and I'll probably clean it off and remove the front cover to get it ready for another one.
In any case, If GSL-SE Front covers aren't supposed to cost more than $50 shipped then I'm finding the wrong people. LoL
I'm going to hold off on the engine mounting thing for a bit anyways... I need to deal with the more important emissions and actually getting the shell rolling.
Spyride- That's what I was afraid of, I figured the cast Aluminium was going to cause problems, thanks for verifying it...
Also I'll probably have the engine out of my truck to do a clutch job for class (Its already got the tranny off of itand stuff soeasy peezy...
) and I'll probably clean it off and remove the front cover to get it ready for another one.
10-27-08, 11:14 AM
#47
djessence
10-27-08, 11:38 AM
#48
CPS Motorsport
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RX7Doctor is selling his for $25, check the for sale section. There is nothing wrong with running the 12A cover also, and you already have a 12A front cover from your old car.
10-27-08, 11:52 AM
#49
djessence
Wait, you have one from your old car? Then why the...... does this thread even exist. use it. its free and in your posession and its just as frikin good as an SE cover (almost),
10-27-08, 01:15 PM
#50
Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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I didn't want to use it because somewhere else on this fourm I read that it will not pass emissions...
But that seems to have been disproven so I am most likely going to re use the old cover...
As for the E-bay link, I don't do Ebay they screwed me over and they're customer service was shitty... long *** story.
I wouldn't mind buying it from the doc, but I don't have a real effective means of paying over seas unless he takes credit card....
I'll let you guys know what I am going to go with, right now I am a little more concerned with some other miniscule details surrounding my ressurection...
Thankfully now that I finally have a job, the money issue isn't as much a problem. Time still is, but so far it seems that i am okay for another month or two...
Oh, small question still related to this thread somewhat...
Can I use 13B poly mounts or do I still need to use the 12A ones for the crossmember? I'm considering snagging some from Banzai a little later down the line.
But that seems to have been disproven so I am most likely going to re use the old cover...
As for the E-bay link, I don't do Ebay they screwed me over and they're customer service was shitty... long *** story.
I wouldn't mind buying it from the doc, but I don't have a real effective means of paying over seas unless he takes credit card....
I'll let you guys know what I am going to go with, right now I am a little more concerned with some other miniscule details surrounding my ressurection...
Thankfully now that I finally have a job, the money issue isn't as much a problem. Time still is, but so far it seems that i am okay for another month or two...
Oh, small question still related to this thread somewhat...
Can I use 13B poly mounts or do I still need to use the 12A ones for the crossmember? I'm considering snagging some from Banzai a little later down the line.