Catatonik

I am putting together a custom turbo kit for my 12a, and was wondering what are some numbers other people have successfuly run without too much destruction.

I am planning on running a remote mount garret gt67 journal bearing turbo with a small FMIC on a racing beat long primary exhaust system (turbo will REPLACE the muffler). I dont plan to do anything internal, as I just rebuilt it to stock specs this summer. I already have the kit, msd 6a, fuel pump, ect ect... and a custom carb hat for my nikki. I dont know if i want the nikki boost prepped or if i should go with a webber and boost prep that. Either way, I am ordering my waste gate springs and figure 5psi is a good starting ground. Should I take a chance and order some other springs (upto 15psi) or just order one and use a boost controller?

How much boost and how much power are you 12a turbo guys running?

My initial goal was 180-200 WHP, but now i'm feeling cocky, and wanna try for 300+... anyone care to talk me out of it, or have any input?

Catatonik

Gee... don't everybody speak at once now. ANY input is helpful.

Do you think 180-200whp is attainable from a stock 12a turbo?

defakto

If you're running stock specs I've heard up to 10 psi max, anything beyond that and you'd need to do some custom prep work on the engine itself to handle the extra pressure.

Just make sure you picked the right turbo for the engine, the wrong one will leave you very, very unhappy with results. If you haven't already, Pick up Corky Bells book from amazon. Lots of info on how to pick the correct turbo for your application.

Catatonik

Already got the turbo... just deciding on wastegate, BOV, and which carb set-up to go with.

I'm teetering between sending sterling my nikki, or having a Dell or weber boost prepped instead. Anyone ever used a Dellorto under boost? (I just wanna try something different)

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Kinda bunk information there IMO. 10 PSI on what turbo? What fuel setup? intercooler? fuel? etc...


Buy all the proper gauges to monitor the eng first. Knock sensor, Wideband , fuel pressure and boost at the least. Then build up a fuel system that will support your HP goal. And get an IC matched to the cfm of your turbo.

I would go with a piggy backed fuel injection system on top of your carb. Drill and tap the manifold and add the extra injectors. Then use a greddy AIC controller (or similar) and a map sensor to control them.

Biggest problem with this setup is you will need a second fuel system for the injectors. There are tons of ways to do this using separate fuel cells with high octane fuel etc.

But I would just add a 155lpr walbro to the tank and run new fuel lines to a 4 cyl fuel inj manifold I bought at a junk yard. Then run the return line back to the tank. Crimp off 2 of the 4 injector holes and mount it to your manifold.

Then I would add a progressive alky kit to help keep down the detonation at high boost. Raise your boost on a dyno while safely monitoring gauges until you hit your HP numbers.

I'd guess around 16psi on that turbo on a stock engine. Which IMO is perfectly safe. You just have to watch your alcohol levels and gauges. I've got a audible alarm tied into my knock sensor so I don't have to watch the gauges while beating on the car... works great! If I get into detonation it just beeps at me.

Don't be skeert to run high boost if you have all the right things...

After saying all that, why not just spend the 1500 dollars on a TII swap? Or at least swap a 13b NA motor in there that is already fuel injected? You would make more power cheaper IMO.

Good luck!

Catatonik

I already got the racing beat exhaust, turbo and flanges, and my motor was just rebuilt.. i want to make use of them all.. LOL. I thought I'd try the remote mounted turbo for something different.

So are you reccommending i use the nikki and add a secondary system?

defakto

secondary system? What do you mean?

perfect_circle

ok, i know of up to 30 psi on the stock motor. its all in the tuning. a wideband lots of jets, and a dyno would be nice. lots of fuel. for your goal. the nikki would be fine, send your carb to robert and he can boost prep it for you. then you can just use bigger secondary jets, and stock primary and you should be fine. the remote mount idea is a huge waste. the only time that would be good is on a diesel because of the large volume of air through to exhaust to help eliminate lag. but the exhaust would have to go all the way back to the turbo then you have to run a charge pipe all the way back up to the front, and the only place to run it would be next to the exhaust so it would absorb alot of heat. yea, the intercooler will take care of some of it, but if you already start out with hotter air, there is only so much an intercooler can do.

im not saying it wont work, just it wont be as easy as it sounds, if you still want to do it, go for it. but you will also need a pump to feed oil to and from the turbo. hope this helps

coldy13

For a street setup using a stock 12a and TII turbo don't go over 16psi if you want it to last. I had mine on a dyno stock 12a 60k miles, TII turbo, 2 TII intercoolers, msd 6a, modded nikki carb, 170rwhp 180tq at 12psi. I had a wideband on it, afr was around 12.5 the whole run. I run stock timing with a locked dizzy, stock primarys 265 secondaries. You can get a bit more hp if you use a bigger turbo, but the sotck ports are tiny and don't like to flow that much. Streetport the engine and up to 400rwhp is possible before you need to stud or pin the engine.

coldy13

No, you just need to tap into the oil system and the stock oil pump will supply pressure to feed the turbo, then drill and tap the front cover just below the OMP for the drain. For the feed you can T off the oil pressure sender or buy a different oil filter pedastal that has an extra port for feeding a turbo.

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

i think hes talking about w/ a remote mount turbo. when you mount the turbo far from the motor, usually where the muffler is (ie. remote mount) its impossable to gravity drain the oil from the turbo back to the motor. a small scavanging pump would be needed to feed the oil away from the turbo.

Whizbang

i would go til the thing blows up then take one step back. Thats about where it should be.

gmanuser

just a question i did not see you address the issue of how you are going to get the oil to the turbo i take it that you have a us model and not the 12a turbo 1985 from japan but i was just curious if you realized you need to get oil to and from the turbo into your oil system.

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Some remote mount kits that I have seen use a separate oil reservoir rear mounted with a scavenger pump to circulate the oil. Actuallt works out nicely you can run thinner synthetic oil for the turbo and regular old motor oil in your car. Best of both worlds....

REVHED

Ever heard of keeping things simple?

That is too complicated and completely unecessary. All you need to do for the oil feed is tap into the oil filter pedestal or install a spacer block and tap that.

Same goes for running a carb in conjunction with injectors. Choose one or the other.

Catatonik

I've addressed the oil return line. I mounted scanvanging pump on the return line. I think i'm gonna try the nikki for a bit, and the turbo i have is specificly designed to be a remote mount (Squires Universal Kit). The charge pipes only drop about one psi over a std turbo set-up, but they definatley wont run as hot and will keep the heat out of the engine bay (and save space). I've looked into that part of it... we did a similar set-up on my firends Z28 Camaro and it worked beautifuly.
Only an idiot would run boost without proper gauges, so no worries there. I'm hoping the nikki will get me to my 200whp goal, at wich point I'll be looking at a weber 48IDA, or a dellorto setup... not sure which one yet though.
Unfortunatley theres only one real public use dyno around here, and they charge $100 for three pulls without tuning services, or $100/hr with a tuning specialist... so... $$$ Ouch! I might just start small, do a few pulls, and see where it goes from there.

So general consensus is: 180whp on stock port, 400+ on street port?

Well i guess its a no brainer what i need to do... not that I really wanted to get into that right now.

Frostycrowd

iTrader: (9)

I really dont understand why you are going with remote turbo, there are lots of downsides to them, and 400 hp with a remote turbo would be sooooo laggy. Anyhow the Engine bay of these cars are huge valleys of space.

Naegleria_Fowleri

I'm with frosty on this one. Just do it as close to the engine as possible for optimum performance, otherwise you're just losing a lot of power that you would otherwise have.

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Running oil lines the length of the car is unsafe, and not good for the turbo and hard on the oil pump. It would be easier and more efficient in the long run to have a remote oil reservoir and pump. Thats why it is done.

If you can't handle 2 fuel systems then thats your problem???

Going with secondary fuel system will enable you to tune the car easier. Especially for a dual purpose road/race car. It would allow you to adjust your boost on the fly. And unlike carb'd setups you can adjust the boost for race gas with the turn of a boost ****. Then turn it back down for pump gas for the cruise to work.

The point I was making is if you have some general know how and creativity you can make your own system rather than paying tons of money to "race" shops.

I could build the above system for under $350 including fuel pump, lines, injectors and controller.

And yes I've heard of "Keep it simple".

I'm Glad the world didn't listen to you or we'd all still be riding horses...

REVHED

I take back what I said about the oil feed. I didn't realise he was considering a remote turbo setup.

As for running a carb and injection TOGETHER, this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a long time. Aside from adding complexity and making tuning MORE difficult, if you're going to the trouble you might as well run full EFI.

Also, please explain to me how boost control has anything do with whether an engine is carb or EFI?

And lay off the childish personal attacks. I build and tune my own engines and turbo systems. Full Mircotech injection. The way it should be.

Catatonik

worst case scenario, I dont like it and end up relocateing the turbo later.

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Thats a sweet setup! No childish comments, I was taking a stab at being clever!

Yes Microtech is nice, I would have used Mega Squirt and paid less, but what ever.

I'm saying boost control is simplified dramatically with EFI. Or a piggy back setup like the one I suggested. Strange?? Maybe to some. I'd just say different. And from the engineering stand point I think it makes perfect sense.

With a carb when you want to change boost levels (dramatically like 10+lbs) You need to change the main metering jets right? Unless there is some new design I'm not aware of with the boost prep'd carbs? (Very well could be!) I've been a V8 guy for a while now and playing with jets all the time is a PITA!

The added injectors are running off a MAP sensor. So as the boost rises the map sensor tells the injectors to compensate. So all you have to do is make sure you have big enough injectors to compensate for the boost your running. And crank up the boost ****.



Not everyone has the cash for a microtech setup. And with this guys original goal of 200whp street car I really don't think it's necessary when a 350 dollar fuel system would work just fine.

No_Rotor_RX7

that's why i built holley's for running boosted 12a's using a boost referenced power valve i could literally run 10psi during the week and 24psi on the weekend and the afr's would always be in the high 10's under boost. there are alot of good tricks for budget setups.

but personally if you don't understand carbs... stick with a full fuel injection setup. the megasquirts are so cheap and you can get them prebuilt it's even simpler.

kapn krunch

for the people that dont understand the carb/efi at the same time. you use a pipe in your intkae/intercooler system routed before the carb and weld in injector bungs and run a seprate fuel computer for them and when your in boost they supply the extra fuel by spraying it down the throttle bores. its cheaper to set up ms to do it then buying a greddy or simalar system

No_Rotor_RX7

yes and to do supplementary injection properly you need a fuel controller that reads off of MAP. this way when it's not just spraying out a certain amount of fuel all the time. that also adds up in cost and imo just isn't worth it one bit