Matty's first 1st Gen

So a long time ago I posted, saying that I thought I had a problem with my eccentric shaft; I thought that oil was leaking from where the pilot bearing is. A few people told me that was impossiable, and that the rear seal must be leaking, and thats what killed my origional clutch. So I replaced the rear seal and put in a new clutch. After 4 months, the engine is out again, because the clutch is slipping badly again. When I took the clutch off there was oil all over the flywheel, but very little on the actual engine block. I thought that maybe I installed the rear seal wrong last time. But when I looked in the pilot bearing hole I saw lots of dark oil smelling of gas. I'm sure now that oil is comming from the little brass plug at the back end of the pilot bearing hole. When I compaired the pilot bearing hole from my current engine to one on one of my previous engines I found that the brass plug on the old engine was pushed further into the e-shaft, so the plug was slightly indented. On my current engine however the plug actually sticks out maybe 2-3 mm. I took a screwdriver and rubber mallet, And I was able to tap the plug back into the eshaft, so it was indented 1-2mm, thats like 3-5mm movement?? So I know thats been my problem the whole time, now how can I fix it, and make sure it never comes loose? I don't want to spend any more money on clutches. I was thinking maybe some JBweld would do the trick. Any one heard about this problem before?

Thanks for your time, Matt

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

I had a similar problem on a 4 port 13 b. I ordered the engine and installed it, cranked it up and shortly thereafter discovered a oil leak like you described. I removed the transmission and discovered the leak coming through the rear of the eccentric shaft. the engine builder had left the plug out. I called him and he explained that there are two types of plugs, some that are pressed in and some that screw in. luckily mine screwed in. The builder claimed that if mine had been the pressed in type i would have to return the engine to him for the eccentric to be removed so that the plug could be pressed back in. I do not know what years/types engines come with screw in plugs and what years/types come with pressed in plugs, I hope this helps, maybe someone with more knowledge will make a post. Oh yea mine had a allen socket in the back of it to screw it in with, if yours does not it must be the press in type, your idea of the jb weld or some other sealant may work but i would check with someone that can give firsthand advice.

Matty's first 1st Gen

Yea it for sure isn't screw in, Crap, I hope i don't have to put an new e-shaft in. I was losing so much oil that it would leak from the starter. I think i'm gonna try some more tapping in, and i'm gonna use an artist brush to seal around the edges. Thanks for the reply

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

Is there any way for you to completly remove it before proceding?? The screw in plug has o rings around it, If you could remove it and examine to see how it is designed to seal you could better figure how to get a good seal and a successful reinstall. Maybe you could replace the sealing part ?? or at least clean it so it would seal better before you tapped it back in, then maybe you could peen the edges of it with a punch to help it stay in place, before you do to much wait for more post, some of these guys with engine building experience will have more information.

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

Bump

64mgb

iTrader: (1)

I've never seen this plug discussed on this forum before, and I've never seen anything about it in the rebuild kits I've looked at. But the factory manual does mention it. The 1st attachment is from the 85 manual. The 2nd attachment is the only mention made of this plug that I can find in the 89-91 manual.

MicahMan

i guess i learn something new every day. cool

numan2

if memory serves me correctly the screw-in plugs are pre RX7. The engines I built years ago were mainly out of RX2,3 and 4's the screw-in plugs were a real pain in the *** to get out too.

Matty's first 1st Gen

Thats a great idea to peen the edges. Would the main contributing factor that pushes the plug out be oil pressure? I think a little peen action and some JB weld, and hopefully i'll be ok, But from those diagrams it looks like there are some o rings in there, and even with the eshaft i have on my desk, i have no clue how to get to them.

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

I think you need to remove the plug, i have a 79 factory shop manual, if numans right the 79 would have had the press in plug, let me do some research to see if it has guidance about how to remove it, i'm not sure the press in plug has o rings, i'll let you know what the manual says about it.

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

My factory manual for 79 shows the threaded plug with o rings. next i checked the haynes manual for 79-85 and it shows the threaded plug as well, that would indicate that your 83 would have the threaded plug. Did your plug have a allen shaped socket in the end of it?? If it does and if you are lucky maybe you did not damage the threads on the plug when you tapped it in and you can remove it , inspect the threads maybe chase them with a die of the appropriate size, replace the o rings and reinstall. If you are only a little unlucky then you only damaged the threads on the plug and you can replace it with a new one, If your luck is like mine you may have damaged the threads inside the eccentric. If that is the case you may have a problem. Hopefully you come engineer a fix without having to dissassemble the engine, maybe tap new threads into eccentric or install a hellicoil thread repair?

Matty's first 1st Gen

Well the thing is that there isn't any allen shaped socket in there at all. also I have 3 engines (blown) in my garage, and none of them have the allen socket either. Its strange there is no info on this problem, I want to know how it happened. I Wouldn't think that there would be threads on the plug in my engine, because when I gently tapped it with the rubber mallet it slid right back into place. Unless the threads were previously damaged before. I'm looking at an E-shaft on my desk, and I'd have absolutely no idea how i'd be able to take the plug out. I'm stumped?

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

Well Iguess Ii'm stumped as well. I have no idea of how the plug is supposed to be removed and I am dissappointed that no one has chimed in and helped, I know that some of these guys that have engine building experience should know how to get the pressed in plug out. Do you think you could drill a small hole in the back of it just deep enough to get a screw or something into it to pull it out? maybe you could try this with one of the spares you have to find out how it is designed so you wont risk damaging the plug or e shaft in your engine. I wish I had a factory shop manual for your year car that would explain how to get it out. Maybe you could call some of the commercial rotary engine builders for some guidance.

Come on guys I know that somewhere out there someone knows how to get this plug out, chime in and help!!!!!!

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

I found a 84 manual online and it has a diagram identical to the one that 64 mgb posted. It mentions the hexagonal socket and it has o rings. If I find anything else out I will let you know. Good Luck and let me know how it ends up.

RotoBuggy

Reviving this thread from the dead because it helped me. I had the same issue with my '79 12A. It turns out that the Kennedy adapter kit I have to put the Maz behind a VW transaxle is about .020" too thin, and the nose of the input shaft chewed my eccentric plug up handily. It didn't make the '84 engine I had in there leak when it chewed it up (since it has the threaded-in plug), so I didn't realize the problem until the '79 started spewing oil out of the eccentric.

To press it in, I just used a brass drift and a careful few taps with a hammer. Hopefully it will hold...

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yes this is a good thread. IIRC they went from the removable (allen head) plug to the press in plug in 83ish?

anything made after 1985 will have the press in plug.

RotoBuggy

For the record, using a hammer and drift didn't hold. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to pull the engine...

When these are pressed, does anybody know how much pressure is used? I'm thinking about trying some Permatex Aviation sealant. We used to use this on freeze plugs, and it would keep them in and leak-free quite well. With the small surface area of the plug, it doesn't have a lot of force exerted on it, so we'll see...