pdxgen1

I've read all the (very informative & helpful!) threads on adjusting the FB box with the 3 adjustment points, and have adjusted it to the point it is slightly tight and it still has free play & poor centering. It makes the car quite unpleasant to drive, you have to pay constant attention on rough roads just to keep between the lines. Does not drive like a sports car should. There are plenty of sports cars with recirculating ball steering boxes (old Ferraris, Alfas, Porsches, Benzes) & I've never driven anything at all like this. I'm fed up with it, and I'm trying to decide if I should bite the $1,035.00 bullet & buy a new box/shaft assembly from MazdaTrix.

I've completely rebuilt the rest of the front end - all new bushes, tie rod ends, ball joints, Pitman Arm, Moog heavy duty idler box, shocks, strut tops, RB springs, you name it. Actually most everything in the front end was in good condition & didn't really need to be replaced at all.

Anyway, anybody do this? Did it return the new steering feel to the car? Eliminate all the on center free play?

Thanks for any feedback

Bruce

Sgt Fox

iTrader: (3)

I personally would not spend $1000 on a new recirc ball steering box. If respeed had their act together still, you would be better off spending your cash on the rack and pinion.

7aull

iTrader: (2)

Having had the opportunity to drive the Sgt's FB with the R&P I agree. Sweet package if you can find one.
Is there even an option to _buy_ an OE steering box??? would be surprised...

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

I agree, I love my Re-Speed rack, altough it did take some work to make it the perfect solution for the street. Eliminating all the noise and vibration took some work, but I would never go back.

Mazdatrix list a complete steering box for the FBs, over a grand however.

FCinWV

iTrader: (8)

Good luck getting anything out of RE-Speed. Unfortunately I had to pull a claim on them through paypal. No bueno.

pdxgen1

I know that rack & pinion conversions are not possible at this point. Re-speed was the only one doing them, and they are essentially gone at this point. If I could change/upgrade/re-engineer to another steering system, I would take that option.

That leaves the only choices being the recirculating ball box options:

1) Adjust present box - this I have done 6 ways to Sunday. I've adjusted, driven, adjusted, driven, in all the combinations of the 3 different adjustments until I just can't get it any better. I feel the center straight ahead position is just too worn to allow for slop to be removed without making the box too tight overall.

2) Have the present box rebuilt - if I could be completely sure that the rebuild would eliminate all slop on center & be smooth and direct, I would choose this option. But I'm not willing to go to all the trouble and expense of having the box rebuilt just to put it all back together & not have it perfect. This is not cheap, either, most places I contacted over the phone or email want $400 - $600 for a rebuild, and don't seem to want to guarantee that all slop will be removed. If I can be assured of a great rebuild, I would still take this option. If someone can advise on a fantastic rebuild shop & has had excellent results with said shop, then this would be the route I would take.

3) Buy the new complete box from MazdaTrix. I certainly have little interest in spending a grand, I agree with the other posters, but I would if I had to. That's why I'm looking for feedback on how well a brand new box works.

Recirculating ball steering boxes are not inherently inferior, see the above list of vehicles that I've driven, all with r.b. steering. Don't forget, one of the main reasons that rack & pinion has become popular is the low cost & ease & speed of assembly in the factory. All the vehicles listed above in my experience have accurate, precise steering that adds to the driving experience.

The steering on my FB is simply horrid, I'll sell the car B4 I settle for steering this bad. The rest of the car is great, it's a 52,000 mile one owner car that is in fantastic original showroom condition & overall is enjoyable to drive except for the steering.

Thanks again for any help - Bruce

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

Mazda USA has 1 non power steering box at this time, FA54-32-110. dealer cost is $469.57, and msrp is $782, so if you had any kind of dealership connections, you could pick it up for around $600...

the PS box is NLA.

i checked a few of the internal bits, and they look to be NLA

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

I think we have an opportunity here. If we can get the design of the Re-Speed unit, we as a community could make our own. If someone can get me all the technical data, I will pay to have a machine shop make one and once it works, have them make them at cost for everyone else that wants one.

That's right, I'll pay for the engineering and design cost. Then anyone that wants one will only pay for the reproduction cost and shipping (no profit added on). And guess what, no more dealing with Re-Speed or Canadian shipping. I will then make the plans open source.

All I need are templates of the cradle and cross member. We will need to figure out what rack to use but that's the easy part.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

Aren't there steering boxes out of other vehicles that could work?

pdxgen1

Andernamen:

Based on what I have found, there are no other boxes that will work without re-engineering the whole system. It would be great if there were a bolt in from something else that was cheaper.

j9fd3s:

The FA54 is the part # for the 84 - 85 manual box, I have a late 81 that calls for the more expensive box. Can anybody tell me if the later box will work without lots of re-engineering? I would think that no one would buy the earlier box if the later one fit @ 1/2 the price. Too good to be true, I would think.

Thanks, Bruce

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

The FIRST thing I did when I bought my SE ~7 yrs ago was purchase a new steering box from Mazdatrix. It wasn't nearly that expensive(~$1000) back then, but then again the dollar was worth far more...Yes it was expensive, yes it was a PITA to install, YES I would do it again. Haven't touched/thought about it since I installed it, and my SE is the best steering FB I've ever had.

flight_of_pain

Swapping to FC front suspension gives you a R&P among other pros and cons. It is also possible to swap a R&P into the stock FB suspension without a terrible amount of work.











IIRC that was some form of VW rack in slammedgsl's car

Isaac

ray green

iTrader: (14)

This seems to be much ado about nothing.

If you have a steering box that's a bit sloppy, try to adjust it and if that doesn't work, source a used one that's still in good shape.

I could buy two nice FB's with decent steering boxes for $1000.

Then again, a factory new FB steering box might be worth $1000, if you really want to do it right.

13x

try the adjustments and double check the wheel alighment ... I've driven cars with the caster off and it's hideous ..... white knuckle doing 60 on the highway ...

Now I don't know if I would go through this much work but there are cases of guys putting a FC subframe onto a FB ... details I do not know but one of our guys has done it and loves it

sommmatt

iTrader: (2)

This might seem a bit silly knowing you replaced all of that stuff, but have you aligned this car? If you have problems with your caster and toe, in particular, you will have poor centering and the feeling of lots of play.

Eyeball alignments at home just won't cut it. Poor alignment angles can cause cars to drive all sorts of crazy.

What do you mean by slightly tight and still has free play? Tight would indicate no free play. Are you actually seeing a dead spot when wiggling the steering wheel vs what happens at the pitman arm?

The other thing to consider, is this car isn't a Ferrari, Porsche or a Benz. It might just feel like junk in comparison.

pdxgen1

Thanks for the help, all -

sevens4me:
Sounds like you thought the work & expense was worth it, that's very helpful. I've replaced other r.b. boxes B4 on other cars, & the work to R & R them is truly a big PITA. I'm not looking forward to the work any more than spending the $$. Have you developed any free play in the box after 7 years? Still steer precisely? If you had it to do over would you spend a grand?

Ray:
I agree completely on the box price, I only paid $2K for the whole car, the cost of the box vs. the cost of the whole car is of course why I'm wrestling with the decision. The rest of the car is really clean, so maybe I can justify spending the $$.

13X & sommmatt:
I rough aligned in the garage, then took the specs down to my good alignment shop & they aligned it on their Hunter laser machine. The steering was bad (sloppy, free play) B4 all the suspension work, still bad after the work, bad B4 & after the alignment, still bad although a bit better after many box adjustments.

sommmatt:
The way I have it adjusted now as the "least bad" compromise is that the straight ahead position feels a bit tight, but with poor self centering & a lot of wandering all over the road on rough roads, and still sloppy with a couple of inches of free play B4 changing the direction of the car. If I loosen anything, then it has lots more slop, if I tighten any of the 3 adjustments then it is stiff, has no self centering action at all, & has to be manually turned back to center.

No, I don't expect it to feel like a Ferrari or Porsche, my point was that those cars back in the day had r.b. steering boxes & steered quite well. So I think that the RX-7 has the potential to steer well, unlike some who think that it can't possibly be good with a r.b. steering box. I have to tell you that RX-7s don't feel "junky", the 2 I've had are solid, good handling cars with of course great engines. I used to work in a Ferrari shop & can tell from personal experience that most of 'em are not all that they are cracked up to be.

Thanks, Bruce

Cameron38

iTrader: (2)

I just had Mazdatrix put in a rebuilt Steering Box on my 85 SE. The original was shot and wouldn't adjust anymore. The part was $593. Steers great now.. zero slop.

DerrickS

Mazdatrix lists the power box as NLA :-( Oh well, I'd ditch the PS for better steering feel. 593 doesn't sound so bad. Might need to grab em while they still make em.

pdxgen1: I feel your pain. I've adjusted mine in the only place you can on the ps unit, and you can make it sort of tight, but tight with slop and the feel is horrible. I backed off on it so I'd have loose slop which I deemed to be a better situation. My box isn't that bad really, but like you say, I've driven lots of other cars with RB steering and they weren't like this. Hell, my nissan truck has sloppier box than the rx-7 but STILL drives better. That really kills me. It must be a combination of skinny tires and light weight front end.

KansasCityRepu, If we could get that information, my Dad manages the lasers and job quoting at a local machine shop. I'd be happy to see what we could get done. I have access to solid modeling software as well. I could probably draw something up if we only had a few measurements. I've always wanted to do this and always planned on trying once my engine was out for rebuild. Still running strong though (160k), so....

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

ah, the FA24-32-110B shows that its available, but Mazda USA doesn't have any, so at best it would be about a 6-8 week wait from japan, at worst, its NLA. actually changing the box is very easy, its a mazda. i think you need to remove the ignition switch and combo switch, and the battery, and then it drops out the bottom front.

stupid question, are you sure you adjusted the box correctly? i played with mine, and i noticed there were basically two adjustments, play and effort, and the first time through i managed lots of play and high effort. take two ended up with a nice light effort and play is minimal

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Box and steering are still exactly the same after 7 years, but then again, I don't drive it more than ~5k miles a year. If it was a car otherwise great, and I planned to keep it and never sell, I would still spend the money as it would be the "easiest" solution. Way easier than a custom R&P or Fc subframe, etc. The biggest problem with replacing the box(at least for me) was getting the car high enough in the air to remove and replace the box with the shaft connected out the bottomj of the car. If you have AC, I think you'd need to remove the compressor and the giant bracket it was mounted to, also.

13x

Just throwing this out there, due to the age of our cars even "alighment shops" have proven that not all of them know you need to rotate the strut mount to adjust the camber and caster. I've pointed this out to some of our local young guns when they say they are swapping spring or struts

My own car is fine, two fingers on the wheel at ... umm over the posted speed limit when playing with the stereo .... now my wife daily drives her 83 GSL and it does have a little slop but it cruises the highway with no issues .... I do not think I have any extra steering boxes else I'd say your welcome to have it

pdxgen1

I love dealing with the parts guy @ MazdaTrix, he always seems to know what's going on and has given me good advice many times. I forget his name, I think I talk to the same guy each time. Ordered a lot from him over the last year since I bought the car.

He sold me the 84 - 85 manual box new for $593.00, which is a hellava lot easier to swallow than $1035.00 for the one that is called for on a late '81. He indicated that this is the one they use to replace the box on all 1st gens that come in for steering service. They evidently all interchange from 79 - 85, there are a few wire clips not on the later box but no other major changes. He says he sells a few of these and brings in a few for the service side of the shop.

He's evidently been @ MazdaTrix quite a while (his knowledge base backs that up!), he indicated that when sector shafts were available they sold a couple every month, this is the part that wears the most and needs to be replaced. Sector shafts have not been available from Mazda for quite a few years. He indicated that with the lack of availability of sector shafts, the boxes are not rebuildable as this is the part that is needed to restore the steering feel and remove the play.

I'll update this thread after I install the new box & let you know my results.

Bruce

Fungus Mungus

iTrader: (9)

pdxgen1,
It's good to hear that these boxes are interchangeable. I did this swap about 3 months ago and didn't look back. Totally worth it. My steering slop is a thing of the past. No, it doesn't feel like a Miata, but it well within factory specs for steering slop and I feel like I can point my car in any direction and it goes where I expect. No wandering whatsoever.

One thing to watch out for is to be careful with that steering column...it's easier than you'd think to snap those plastic pins that hold the collapsible steering column together. The guys that did mine manhandled it, not knowing this, and busted them, so I had a collapsed shaft in the end. Luckily there is a fix using aluminum pop rivets to fix this problem.

fm

Cameron38

iTrader: (2)

All the guys at Mazdatrix are all very knowledgeable. I feel lucky to only live about 10 miles from their shop. When I first bought my SE last month, I could not get it to idle smoothly or idle at all when cold. Their head mechanic John took a look at it and said whoever attempted to tune it up before had really messed it up. Purrs like a kitten now.

82FanTC

iTrader: (9)

ReSpeed website states that he uses the rack out of a Fox Mustang (80-93)