Alright, who's smart enough?
#1
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Alright, who's smart enough?
Okay, here's the deal. Stock steering sucks for a number of reasons. Right? I mean, even if you manage to get rid of the "wonder steer" (which I have done) you still have to put up with a steering ratio more suitable for a large bus than a sports car.
Now, the Pitman arm comes off the box and works the whole assembly. If it were slightly shorter, then you would reduce the number of "turns of the wheel" needed to make the corners. Right?
I was considering having one cut/welded, but when you stop to consider the fact that if it breaks you really are screwed, I am now looking for other options.
What I'm thinking now is that this steering box is a throw back from the Ford company. So, it is probably a fairly standard unit. So, maybe there is another arm made for another application out there that fits the same way, but is slightly shorter in length.
I'd like to think that it could all be that easy, but you're still left with the question of "how do you begin to find out?". So here I am, presenting my question to the largest collection of grey matter that I currently have access to. Don't let me down now guys.
Now, the Pitman arm comes off the box and works the whole assembly. If it were slightly shorter, then you would reduce the number of "turns of the wheel" needed to make the corners. Right?
I was considering having one cut/welded, but when you stop to consider the fact that if it breaks you really are screwed, I am now looking for other options.
What I'm thinking now is that this steering box is a throw back from the Ford company. So, it is probably a fairly standard unit. So, maybe there is another arm made for another application out there that fits the same way, but is slightly shorter in length.
I'd like to think that it could all be that easy, but you're still left with the question of "how do you begin to find out?". So here I am, presenting my question to the largest collection of grey matter that I currently have access to. Don't let me down now guys.
#4
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I don't think it's as simple as that. The Pitman arm and the idler arm must be the same length, so at the very least you'd have to find a shorter idler arm. Wouldn't this also muck with the caster as well since you're essentially moving the bottom of the strut back in the wheel well by shortening the steering arms?
#6
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Originally Posted by Kentetsu
If it were slightly shorter, then you would reduce the number of "turns of the wheel" needed to make the corners. Right?
It shows that changing the length shorter will give you less angle. You would also need the pitman and idler to change the same amount (As posted above). This would effect bump steer not caster though.
-billy
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#8
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Ah, yes Billy I did have that backwards. Also, the idler arm would indeed have to be changed. I know that Datsun Racing offered shorter knuckles for the Z cars to quicken the steering ratio. Too bad we don't have something like that available...
#9
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if you have any kind of drawing skills and patients, try www.emachineshop.com and make a prototype and test it out. thats probably going to be the best thing to do, trial and error ya know. interesting idea though.
#11
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I looked into having some prototypes made at emachineshop for some aquarium stuff. I downloaded the software, designed my parts and had it priced and it was hella expen$ive!! I think it'd be cheaper to experiment with junkyard parts and if you find something that may work then pony up for custom parts to be made.
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Originally Posted by Kentetsu
Ah, yes Billy I did have that backwards. Also, the idler arm would indeed have to be changed. I know that Datsun Racing offered shorter knuckles for the Z cars to quicken the steering ratio. Too bad we don't have something like that available...
#14
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I was thinking about it while waiting for the new CART car to test at Road Atlanta today. Pick attached.
I think the best idea would be to shorten the steering arms. This would quicken the steering angle. You would probably mess up the bump steer and need to move the drag link forward the same amount that you shorten the arms by. To do this you would need to lengthen the pitman and idler arm.
You might get lucky and not fubar the bump steer and be good. Although longer pitman and idler would help give you more angle with less steering input as well.
You could try the arm mod simply with a flat piece of material with 4 holes in it. 1 for the tie rod, 2 for the strut mounting bolts and one for the ball joint. To test it you would not need the taper reamer for the ball joint and tie rod hole. You would need to devise a way to measure the angle of the wheels when turned, so you can test before and after. You should really bump steer it before and after as well.
-billy
I think the best idea would be to shorten the steering arms. This would quicken the steering angle. You would probably mess up the bump steer and need to move the drag link forward the same amount that you shorten the arms by. To do this you would need to lengthen the pitman and idler arm.
You might get lucky and not fubar the bump steer and be good. Although longer pitman and idler would help give you more angle with less steering input as well.
You could try the arm mod simply with a flat piece of material with 4 holes in it. 1 for the tie rod, 2 for the strut mounting bolts and one for the ball joint. To test it you would not need the taper reamer for the ball joint and tie rod hole. You would need to devise a way to measure the angle of the wheels when turned, so you can test before and after. You should really bump steer it before and after as well.
-billy
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RX7doc has it on this one. BTW, ford wasn't involved with mazda until 86-87 era. so everything before then is pure mazda, thats also why its so hard to get factory parts, because when ford took over they threw it all away. *end history lesson*
#16
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Originally Posted by Cowboyfun
RX7doc has it on this one. BTW, ford wasn't involved with mazda until 86-87 era. so everything before then is pure mazda, thats also why its so hard to get factory parts, because when ford took over they threw it all away. *end history lesson*
#17
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Originally Posted by Cowboyfun
RX7doc has it on this one. BTW, ford wasn't involved with mazda until 86-87 era. so everything before then is pure mazda, thats also why its so hard to get factory parts, because when ford took over they threw it all away. *end history lesson*
I think I read this somewhere in the old school section. yup. here ya go.
Originally Posted by captain carnage
depends on what year, 93 and on is all ford, and i believe 84 and down ford courier is all mazda, and i imagine that there are plenty of different gear ratios used in the mazda trucks, i believe the early 80's version had interchangeable ring and pinion gears with the fb's... so then you could have what? a 3.9 i think?
Last edited by Siraniko; 08-16-06 at 06:07 PM.
#18
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Originally Posted by Cowboyfun
RX7doc has it on this one. BTW, ford wasn't involved with mazda until 86-87 era. so everything before then is pure mazda, thats also why its so hard to get factory parts, because when ford took over they threw it all away. *end history lesson*
#20
Originally Posted by trochoid
Really, then perhaps you could explain the relationship between the REPU, produced from 74-77, and the Ford Courier.
#21
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Sounds like a relationship to me. What I don't understand is the REPU was USDM only, not even imported to Canada. So who made the REPUs, Ford or Mazda? I cannot picture a UAW line worker installing a rotary engine in anything with the animosity to Japanese imports in those years. I got so much **** when I bought my 73 and 75 Civics from guys I worked with back then, even in a non-union shop.
Sorry for the thread jack, this is probably better left to another thread.
Sorry for the thread jack, this is probably better left to another thread.
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Originally Posted by trochoid
Sounds like a relationship to me. What I don't understand is the REPU was USDM only, not even imported to Canada. So who made the REPUs, Ford or Mazda? I cannot picture a UAW line worker installing a rotary engine in anything with the animosity to Japanese imports in those years. I got so much **** when I bought my 73 and 75 Civics from guys I worked with back then, even in a non-union shop.
Sorry for the thread jack, this is probably better left to another thread.
Sorry for the thread jack, this is probably better left to another thread.
#25
using a gsl box has its ups and downs especially if its a used one an aftermarket tight ratio box has its downs as well such as making it fit its like anything else speed costs money and time how fast do you wanna go