Tri-Angles

Nice nice. Why would you say thats about as long as you would want to drive it? I know that PP's are loud and all but so are bridgeys. lol! So what about standard seals, would they last longer than the carbons in a PP or would it be about the same? And why carbons anyway? They pop if you so happen to detonate right?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

standard seals wont do 9000rpm, and IMO @20-30k its probably not a bad idea to pull it apart and freshen it up anyways. it IS a racing engine...

they will pop if you detonate, so you need to be careful not too.

the other option is ceramic, which is $$$$

Tri-Angles

Ahh thats right. Stockers do kinda suck at high rev. so as far as detonating, How do i avoid that again? I have been out of the scene for like 2.5-3 years now so alot of stuff i get mixed up still. :-/

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

dont run it lean and don't run too much timing... same thing happens on a piston engine. in fact we blew up an LS motor with detonation. +5 degrees of timing advance, 13.3 afr, piston to wall clearance of like .040, and step on the gas for like a day = boom

Tri-Angles

Lol! I've done that before! So would you say the racing beat pp housings are a good deal or should I just find a engine builder that can do the cuts for me? I live in Georgia and hardly anyone knows about rotaries here so I would need a little help with that.

peejay

The peripheral port problem isn't necessarily noise so much as the engine's manners or lack thereof. Plus some people get bothered by the smell. You have to figure, when an engine is quite literally misfiring half the time, that means more than half of the fuel going into the engine comes right back out again unprocessed. So it's the automotive equivalent of having a puppy with an upset stomach.

Fuel injection helps greatly, when my p-port was carbureted, the smell would even make ME gag, because to get it to idle and cruise well it had to run eye-wateringly rich, while with EFI it was much more tolerable since the ability to meter fuel had little to do with the quality of airflow at the throttle body. It idled about like my half bridge engines idle, kind of a rolling purr at 1200rpm or so. But half bridge engines require a lot less work than fabricating a peripheral port from scratch, so I do half bridge. Plus they have a whoooole lot better drivability, it's almost stock like as long as you're not the kind of person to drive by using light throttle and high RPM.

Tri-Angles

Alright, so my question is will i make the power that I want from a Bridgeport or a peripheral port? I know that pp's do make good power for racing Anne what not but I also know that they drink fuckloads of petrol too. Lol! Also, do you know about the RB pp housings? I know that the sizes are 48mm & 52 mm I think. Which size should go with? And what about my rear end a driveshaft? What kind of rear end will be able to handle the power that I want to put out on it?

Tri-Angles

hello?

NineDeuce

I think an extra rotor would get you to 250whp pretty easily

Good info on PP and BP though, I've got some research to do

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

PP will give you the most power.....but thats relative to what you need. You have to understand that everyone wants the most power, but you have to consider your needs and practicality.

If you have to ask these questions, you need to do some more homework. I'm not trying to be a dick, but seriously; if you don't know how to build a PP motor or don't have a connection to build one. Don't even try. If you are that much of a noob, start witha street port. Play with it for a while. Then graduate to a Bridge. If you can tune that; you can tune anything. Then consider if you even need a PP. Chances are you don't.

My advice - get some 12A plates and do a half bridge if this is a street driven car. Master that, then when it comes time to re-build (which comes quicker than you think) - go to a full bridge. I wouldn't waste your time with a PP unless its a track-only car and the class you race in is condusive to a PP.

It is WAYYYYY cheaper to do a TII swap than to correctly build AND TUNE a PP. If you are solely interested in pure power, just do a TII swap! But thats just my .02 cents. PP is really for specific race classes. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft pole on the street, although some do. But I'd buy clutches by the pallet if you go the PP route on the street!

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

F-it, just do a street port and a 75 shot of happy juice! FTW!

Plus you'll be a party favorite when you fill with medical grade!

Just say'n!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i think PP and t2 are about even actually, the $1000 used engine + rebuild doesn't make it cheap.

you are right about the second part though, the tuning is the real secret, i spent a long time tuning just the carb.

peejay

It depends on how correctly you do it. If you use the N/A transmission, you may be right, and some people can keep the N/A trans alive for reasonable amounts of time behind a turbo engine. After the trans situation is sorted, the rear axle and suspension become the next fire to put out.

But, it's slightly unfair to compare building an engine with throwing in a used engine of an unknown quanitity.

There's a beauty to not running a truck (turbo) engine. Less torque means less drivetrain problems, no turbo means it's a better driver's car.

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

Sounds like you haven't ever driven a PP before. It is not for street use.....pretty much track only; and even that is narrowed into very specific catagories..

Sounds cool and all, but a half bridge is probably his best bet for drivability vs overall HP gains and reliability.

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

Actually, you are rebuilding an engine either way. The PP housings are quite expensive, the carb or FI is also way up there to be built right. He can get his desired HP goals easily from rebuilding a stock TII motor assuming no major problems with the core. Easy to tune and easy to find a mechanic. PP on the other hand is a lot of extra parts....most will have to be new since there might not be a market for them. The killing part is the tuning of a PP. You could dial in a complete standalone in an afternoon for the TII if necessary and double that HP goal. Can't say that for the PP. Gotta dial it in for street use, then dial it in again for the track....oh, is it humid today - tune again.........then learn how to go back and fourth. If you don't do it right, you just wasted your entrance fee for the race. Lesson learned was tune it one way or another. There is no best of both worlds unless you add an extra rotor .

Now, don't get me wrong, I loves me a PP, but the one I had many-o-years ago was nice; not streetable at all, and took me forever to tune to my needs. Then learning how to tune it back and fourth from street to track was mind numbing. I think its beter to spend the $$ on a good rebuild from a reputable builder. Get their recomendations on what they are good at and evaluate your needs. Then don't neglect the drive train, suspension, and brakes.

Good luck with your decision.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

interesting. my PP is totally tame. it did take a long time to tune the carb, but that is mostly because i had never tuned a carb before, and most of the stuff you read about webers is just incorrect.

and now that ive got it tuned, and i have a little notebook that tells me what part of the carb does what, i could retune the PP in under an hour.

EFI takes longer, no matter what. the carb has maybe 5 points you can adjust fuel only. EFI has something like 1000 (haltech is 32x32) PLUS all the correction maps. plus to get the temp correction maps you actually need a change of seasons to get the temp corrections right...

peejay

I used to daily drive one. On the street. Like, to work and back, and stuff. In traffic and on the highway. There's video of it idling at a ~1200rpm purr on my YouTube link. Drove very nicely.

The way I did it ended up being kind of a coolant sieve, and there were issues related to how the rotor housings I used were junk (wouldn't want to risk ruining GOOD housings, especially 12A housings) but it was a fun experiment.

From a practical standpoint, the half bridge engines are just simpler, take way less fabrication. They can be banged out in very little time and can use any intake manifold you want.

The problem with turbo engines (and this is a matetr of driving perspective) is that they're like Diesels. They aren't very responsive, but they're good at making "long" power. That's why I say turbo engines are truck engines. If all you want out of the car is to mash the throttle in a straight line and go "Wheee!" then get a turbo. If you want to drive a responsive car, N/A is where it is at.

rksti89

HAHAHAHA :rotfl: im sorry to revive a month old or so thread but thats just funny, i must agree tho Turbo is great for making BIG power and if you can tune your car stay in that power band it makes for a great Time Attack car(or other Road Course events) but nothing beats the response and sound of a N/A tunned vehicle. by the way Peejay. you mind if i steal that quote for my sig??

snivley whiplash

iTrader: (4)

well,
my 6 port is finished and running now, just past break in. I am running a dell 48 side draft and rb intake. Rb header 2 to 1 with a 2.5 pipe to pre silencer and a pro flo muffler. pretty loud and throttle but tame in town.

Finally started ringing it out last weekend, was raining but what a blast to drive. 2nd gear pulls at 3500 plus just breaks the tires loose, grab 3rd and hold on, 4th and still spinning, this thing really makes good power.

Got to drive it the dry the next day, pulls so f'n hard to 8k, still got to lean it a bit as a/r is at 12 at wot and around 13.5 at cruise......still have not advanced timing yet.
this combo will make a great street driver and will be using it as a dd. just a little more dialing and waiting for dyno days to put it to the test. will feel good if it is hitting to 165 range, not looking for much more, just want it to live.

good luck with your build, and remember a 2 to 3 mm raise of the exhaust port makes a lot of difference in upper hp.

Joe

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

^Congrats!

I finally got back to my 6 port after a two weeks of ignoring it to get some other stuff done. I installed the oil pan yesterday, then today PercentSevenC came over and we plopped it in the REPU for a test fire.

He had to leave before I could get the carb and junk installed, but as the daylight was fading I cranked it to get some oil pressure. 55psi at slowish cranking speeds. Nice! Battery sat all winter but I bet it'll start.

I dumped a little gas down the carb and it fired in like 1.5 seconds. Wow!

Dumped a little more gas to check, kinda flooded it. Oops. Blew a little smoke this time. Also took longer to start. Duh.

Did the gas down the carb trick one more time. It started easier and could rev even without an accel pump shot. Ok, we're ready for the fuel pump now. This thing wants to run!

Hooked up the Carter and set the FPR to 2.5psi (Nikki). levels both halfway up the windows. Perfect.

Pumped it a few times until I got a couple of good accel pump shots. Fired up quick but ran at 1500ish with a brap. Turns out the throttle stop screw was set too high from a previous test run on another fresh rebuild.

It's getting dark now but I turned it ccw it to where it looked correct. My Nikki sense was guiding me here. Now it starts and idles at around 1k. Still not totally smooth yet but dude it has like 30 seconds of run time and I haven't touched the fuel (mixture) screw yet!

Oh and the oil pressure was somewhere between 75 and 100 psi according to the cheap gauge. Sure cold oil, and 20w50, but 55 at a lazy cranking speed and then 85ish or whatever at less than 3k is really, really good. I mention this because there was some concern originally that the rotor bearings might be showing too much copper. Well, nope.

I can't wait to let this thing run for a bit and get it up to normal temps so I'll know where the oil pressure is going to be. Just gotta do something about the exhaust system first. You see, there kind of isn't one yet. I just threw on an S3 12A manifold slotted to fit a 13B, with a cat shoved on the end of a shorty downpipe. I think I need something a little quieter if I'd like to let it run for longer than 30 seconds at a time.