phalerider

Ok, I've heard the argument for alt fuel for a long time. My Auto tech class even built one for a local power company.

I just heard this argument again on the radio. But this time I drive/race a rotary. A motor that is kill mainly by carbon. Alcohol has no carbon by product. And what the #1 killer/enemy of the rotary? Carbon.

And with no carbon my fb will pass emmissons.
MMMMM pass emmisions gggggggg!!!!

Lastly, you know that one invention that sat around for a century then something came along that was the missing piece of the puzzle....

What if this is what the rotary needed.

Pros
1. 105 octane
2. 100 degress cooler. the surface area of rotary could use some extra cooling.
3. no carbon!
4. $1500 investment turns out 100 gal/day
5. No conversion nessasary.
6. a cost of $1.00 a gal to make
7. alcohol carries its own oxegen molecules. 4x that of gas. what do turbos do, add more O2, no turbo needed?

cmanns

Rotaries like less octane, esp with a 12a.

RX-7 Chris

iTrader: (19)

Also lower milage

PercentSevenC

Ethanol is an awesome fuel if you're boosted. For NA, the benefits are not as dramatic. However, I wouldn't count on being able to pass emissions just by switching to ethanol. For one thing, you'll have to add more oil to the mix (add premix and keep the OMP, or run double the normal amount of premix). For another, the CO2 emissions are actually higher. It doesn't matter as much, because it's "carbon-neutral," but the emissions people don't care about that.

phalerider

yeah, thats what the guy was saying the milage was lower by about 6% BUT its a $1.00 a gallon to make and at some point you can apply for a IRS tax credit.

Con (Kind Of):
The wear properties of corn gas are far lower than petrol and in older motors it will likely remove carbon deposits and build up down to the metal surface. From what I understand from other threads the "falling" carbon will kill apex seals.

However, they suggested weining the car onto it with a half a gallon at a time until the mix is 50/50 gas/corn or the car displays lacking power, then stop and or back off as necessary.



Some motors are said to go 1 million miles with out rebuild.

I just got this car so the motor is toast anyway so I'm gonna give it a shot till the new motor shows up.

Since I'm using corn now is my fuel filler hole my corn hole now?

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

4. $1500 investment turns out 100 gal/day


go onnnnn...

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Ethanol is highly corrosive to many metals and plastics. You cannot use uncoated aluminum or rubber parts in an ethanol engine.

Ethanol is also electrically conductive, where gasoline is not. This makes submerged fuel pumps and fuel level sensors a real problem.

Ethanol requires a higher stoch ratio than gasoline (more fuel per mass unit air) and produces far less energy per unit volume (23.5 MegaJoules/Liter) and per unit mass (31.1MJ/Kilogram) than Regular Gasoline ( 34.8MJ/L and 44.4MJ/Kg); resulting in both lower horsepower and poorer mileage. A gallon of ethanol will only take you about 80% as far as a gallon of gasoline, in an equivalent engine.

At the same time, it burns hotter (not cooler), placing a larger heat load on the cooling systems - - already a weak point in rotaries.

Burning pure ethanol as a motor fuel also produces a number of chemicals, like formaldehydes, that are as bad or worse for people as is gasoline, and unburned ethanol produces large amounts of ozone when reacted photochemically due to solar exposure. The California Air Resources Board (CARB) rates Ethanol's pollution index as 1.7, where gasoline is 1.0 and higher numbers mean more pollution.

phalerider

Since 1983 all gaskets and submersible pumps are compatible with corn based fuels.

Formulin was a questionable stat. Disproved in the 80s and now is significantly lower incidence of respiratory affect 87% in LA.

Which would you rather have 23 parts per million with corn or 980456 parts per million with petrol? Whats gonna kill more? Thats a grusome way to put it but its the truth. Cigarettes kills more than petrol anyway.

So all the FB's from 1983 and later would get a fuel pumps/gaskets made after 1983....

But I'm gonna give it a shot and report back what broke. I expect existing gaskets that where bordeline to give out but my pump is new and $50 worth of carb mods.

I expect it to be ugly in the beginning with a little adjustment but how long is $2.15/gal gonna last?

Brazil is 80%+ Corn gas for decades, 0 formaldehyde deaths. They import 0 fossil fuels. Thats another important point, removing other countries leverage on us.

One last thing I found out was there isnt much diesal gas left, that why its so expensive compared to when I was a kid with my rabbit "D"

phalerider

I dont have all the answers, like for the 105 octance rating. I'm in school and i'm broke so i went to regular and I do think my car is happier now without premium.

So a higher octane may cause issues, I dont know.

I dont have an answer for lubrication either crank motors have a splash bath rotors dont.

How will premix react with corn, I dont know.

The cooler running temp, Hotter plugs?

How will the timing be affected by the cooler temp?

Well, I putting a 1/2 a gal in the morning and we will see........

PercentSevenC

Higher octane, by itself, will make no difference whatsoever. A slower burn will. I imagine you'll want to advance your timing to compensate for the slower burn rate.

Ethanol does NOT burn hotter than gasoline. It burns COOLER. I would try a plug that is one step hotter than stock and see which works better.

In theory, corrosion presents an issue, but in practice, especially in gasoline-ethanol blends, I haven't heard of people having major issues aside from rubber gaskets failing on old carbs.

I just told you how premix reacts with ethanol. You have to use more of it. It seems most people here are running double the normal amount of premix.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

I'll happily argue engineering & physics, but I don't argue social activism. Leastwise, not here.