Pele

iTrader: (28)

So I was discussing my plan on the RX-7, time and funding providing (Ugh... I hate those things. They dictate EVERYTHING... )

One of my plans was to pull the 12A and street port it, (Provided it isn't trashed... Ran when I parked it... Two years ago.

So someone said, "Well since you're pulling the 12A, that's half the work of dropping a 13B in it..."

So I got to thinking... What advantages does the 12A have over the 13B?

Both can be carbed or EFI, so that doesn't matter... Both can be N/A or force fed, so that doesn't matter...

12A doesn't have VDI or dynamic chamber or anything.. Not sure how important that kinda stuff is...

What about weight? Do they weigh considerably different?

If the 12A housings are in fact trashed when I tear it down, should I look into another 12A or a 13B?

IanS

iTrader: (4)

If housings are trashed, just get 13B housings, oil pan, e-shaft, and exhaust manifold. Also give irons a race port and housings a street port. Tah-dah! An SP 4 port 13B! Not sure about the intake manifold. Havent quite figured that part out yet.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

12a parts are more common and cheaper. 3mm apex seals, 13b only had in 85 and older.

Elysian

13B parts are plenty common... i'd think 12A parts would be less common now for sure, since they finally discontinued making parts for them... and there were 13B's in the 70's.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

it is easier to find a 12a than an old 4port or se motor. since 80+ percent of 1G's came with 12a's you would think they would be more common. unless you want a crappy 6port 2G motor with 2mm apex seals. i am talking about motors. parts you may be right, more 13b stuff available. i should have said motors not parts in previous post, my bad.

Elysian

its much harder to find a 12A in really good condition, most have a ton of miles on them.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

13-B will give you more top end than a 12-A.

bkm_rx7

Hey pele...i say that if your 12a is in decent condition...do a 1/2 BP!!! I am in the process of rebuilding my new, self-ported, 1/2 BP 12a. I just painted the irons and housings last night...and im planning on putting it all back together tonight. I did the whole project on less than $100 But this is probably not a great idea...i just have 0 income. PM me if you want more info on this

With a 1/2 BP 12a, holley 600cfm, RB high rise intake, and custom 2.5" exhaust...im expecting around 170rwhp...

mcnannay

although the 12a is still a strong engine, there's no replacement for displacement. The 13b will always have more potential running the same type of setup. But you can still get some huge numbers out of a 12a, so do the best thing for your budget. If the rotor housings are the only thing thats trashed, id just replace the rotor housings. Not sure what good used ones are going for, but i would think you could find a set of two good ones for under $400.

nevarmore

12a's theoretically will last longer. They have more bearing surface area in relation to the rotor width than the 13b.

This is secondhand knowledge for me and I cannot elaborate much more, but it makes sense. Please correct me if this is not right.

Felix Wankel

ummm.... you forgot about the rotors.

rmriggin

if you want to know more about 12a potential get a hold of SS124A

88t2romad

lol, i just thought it was funny you used that line for comparing a 12a to a 13b.


BP 12A !!!!!

couturemarc

both have ups and downs. Some of the ups of the 12a are the lighter rotating assembly, quicker throttle response, 3mm apex seals, less rotor tipping than 13b, less weight/size, cheap parts, larger port area (intake) per displacement vs 13b... thus potential for larger volumetric efficiency....


just a few thoughts

nevarmore

Just thought of another one. Power/weight ratio of just the engine. How much lighter is a 12a compared to a 13b and how much more power does the 13b have to make to stay on par with the 12a power/weight ratio?

Elysian

i don't think a 12A is considerably lighter than a 13B... slap me if i'm wrong, but 20mm really isn't a large difference... especially when with a 13B u can get some pretty light weight rotors... only big difference would be eccentric shaft... rotor housings wouldn't be a huge difference, ur not adding a ton of aluminum...

therotaryrocket

advantages? cheaper i think, fuel consumption?

Marek

iTrader: (2)

The weight differance is for sure isnt noticeable when picking them up. I dont think that should be a worry maybe max extra 20lbs i think at least what it felt like. You shouldnt be worried about the engine itself when thinking of power to weight though.. Think of the rest of the car and all the usless oveweighted metal used there.

680RWHP12A

ultimatly a 13b motor can make more power, but as far as motor durability goes..... 12a and 13b motors use the same size main bearings as well as rotor bearings , so 12a is stronger... also the stationary gears stick out farther on the B motors , they will break before the 12a motors too.. 12a motors are smaller so there is less motor flexing too..

grantmac

The 12A also has shorter apex seals which may be the reason that they seem to be able to withstand a bit more abuse under boost. If I was building for boost or high-RPM the motor would be a 12A.
Grant

Jon_Valjean

The price.

That's it.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

MY main advantage of the 12a is that you can say "I have almost 1.2L of displacement, and I kicked your ***!" or "My GS beat your TII" (if you reallywork it).

If you build a 12a right, it can be a reliable "beat the **** out of me and I'll come back for more" powerhouse. It's not lacking *that* much compared to the 13b.

If you have a 12a right now, you have to think that by switching to a 13b you'll have to change intake and exhaust manifolds, engine mount, and a bunch of other stuff.

Stick with the 12a. I'm always going for the victory of the smaller guy.

Jon

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

I havent seen a 12-A streetported n/a that can beat my 13-B streetport.

Elysian

lol thats an interesting way of looking at it i guess... the engine mount wasn't much of a task tho, i hammered mine flat turns out it was perfect fitment... i think i'd much rather have .1l and 30hp to boot hehe, i can still say my 13B beat ur 5.0 or something like that

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

True enough. I guess I just fell in love with the smaller, carbureted car. Hell, I'd run a 10a if I had the chance... Of course it would be a 10a BP with custom everything and a 10k redline.... but it would get cool looks from people, especially rotary people who *know* what a 10a is when they see it under my hood

I've just heard a lot of talk about the 'bulletproff' reliability of the 12a, and the fact that they have 4 big intake ports with lots of possibility for expansion.

I drive an Rx7 partly because it's a rare car that few people have. The 12a is even rarer when you look at the fact that almost every rotary before and since has had a 13b (except the r100 with it's 10a). I really wish that there had been more research and expansion on the 12a base, but like everything else with my 7, if you want something better, custom build it yourself.

Either way, my vote is for the 12a because I'm a crazy Canadian nut of a moderator, and I say so

Jon