84SE Power Steering Woes.
10-07-15, 11:34 AM
#1
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Thread Starter
84SE Power Steering Woes.
After my engine swap, I've been putting miles on the car to ensure reliability before taking any long trips (~100mi in short trips as of today). Part of the work to get this car back on the road was to rebuild the Power Steering (PS) pump to keep it from blowing PS hydraulic fluid all over the engine bay and underside of the car. I rebuilt the pump down to full disassembly, flipped the inside Main Bearing spacer to close the internal gap to the front seal, and then reinstalled the 'C'-clip which retains it - really a bad design if you've seen the inside of one of these pumps. Reassembled the housing and made sure all of the other sealing O-rings were intact. Filled it up with Dextron Mercon-III which I've had great luck with on every other PS system out there, and.. it still leaks.
Anyway - on the initial startup, the PS pump was whining incessantly (*even after bleeding), and I can see PS fluid running down under the steering gear, possibly leaking from the box. Wanting to continue to put miles on the engine, but not have to keep pouring PS fluid into it just to have it spray out and run down the car and onto the driveway/roadway, I cut the PS belt and pulled it out as a 'lesser-of-two-evils' solution.
Driving it to work today, the steering is HEAVY. I know the ratio on the -SE box is faster because the -SE's were designed with PS in mind, so the manual steering effort is higher than a box designed for manual steering. At speed, you hardly notice it - but it does make the car feel heavier than without PS running, and parking it is taking way too much muscle for my comfort. My wife couldn't drive the car without the PS based on my short drive this morning - she's not strong enough to steer it at parking lot speeds. I need to get the PS up and running again - without leaks - to get that light/airy feeling back to the way it handles.
That brings me to my question; I've read David Lane's writeup on the -SE PS retrofit he did using a 2nd Gen PS Pump and new lines, but that also requires a fair amount of changes to the feed/return hoses and even the electronics, because the 2nd Gen PS pumps use a 1-wire vs. 2-wire lead for pressure management, along with a different engine-speed driven speed-sensitive steering controller. The 1st Gen uses a VEHICLE speed sensor in the speedometer to boost PS effect at low vehicle speeds vs. engine speeds - which seems like a better method to me. At this point, I just want to get the PS back up and running. Also, David Lane's contact who did this work has long since been out of business (His article here: http://www.nellump.net/peri/power-st...p-upgrade.html )
Any tips? Any tricks? Thanks,
Anyway - on the initial startup, the PS pump was whining incessantly (*even after bleeding), and I can see PS fluid running down under the steering gear, possibly leaking from the box. Wanting to continue to put miles on the engine, but not have to keep pouring PS fluid into it just to have it spray out and run down the car and onto the driveway/roadway, I cut the PS belt and pulled it out as a 'lesser-of-two-evils' solution.
Driving it to work today, the steering is HEAVY. I know the ratio on the -SE box is faster because the -SE's were designed with PS in mind, so the manual steering effort is higher than a box designed for manual steering. At speed, you hardly notice it - but it does make the car feel heavier than without PS running, and parking it is taking way too much muscle for my comfort. My wife couldn't drive the car without the PS based on my short drive this morning - she's not strong enough to steer it at parking lot speeds. I need to get the PS up and running again - without leaks - to get that light/airy feeling back to the way it handles.
That brings me to my question; I've read David Lane's writeup on the -SE PS retrofit he did using a 2nd Gen PS Pump and new lines, but that also requires a fair amount of changes to the feed/return hoses and even the electronics, because the 2nd Gen PS pumps use a 1-wire vs. 2-wire lead for pressure management, along with a different engine-speed driven speed-sensitive steering controller. The 1st Gen uses a VEHICLE speed sensor in the speedometer to boost PS effect at low vehicle speeds vs. engine speeds - which seems like a better method to me. At this point, I just want to get the PS back up and running. Also, David Lane's contact who did this work has long since been out of business (His article here: http://www.nellump.net/peri/power-st...p-upgrade.html )
Any tips? Any tricks? Thanks,
10-07-15, 12:39 PM
#2
Did you install all new seals in the pump or did you just take the pump apart and clean it and inspect parts and reassemble?
Can you see if the leak is present at the pump and if so where? Two places I can think are the front seal and perhaps where the reservoir meets the pump.
Can you see if the leak is present at the pump and if so where? Two places I can think are the front seal and perhaps where the reservoir meets the pump.
10-07-15, 02:21 PM
#4
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Thread Starter
So, what I did with the pump is that I removed it, disassembled it and then inspected all the seals to be sure there were no blown seals or broken O-rings. Also, at the mainshaft seal in the front, this was pressed into place and not easily replaceable since I couldn't find a 'rebuild seal kit' for this pump, hence I left it alone - it didn't appear to be leaking from there, anyway. On reassembly, there's a steel collet which functions as a thrust bearing to prevent the retaining C-clip from being ground down by the shaft, and I flipped this collet over (it was heavily worn as the C-clip ground a trough into it all the way around). By flipping the collet, it put flat steel against the C-clip again and brought the mainshaft end play back to nothing.
The reservoir connection is just an O-ring which butts up against the lower portion of the pump, and it may have been leaking from there a bit, too. As it's not on the high-pressure side of the pump, I didn't replace the stock O-ring. Everything else looked good internally, and the pump works properly under power - it's just that either something on the pump is leaking or the steering box itself is leaking. I'm starting to put more emphasis on the steering box at this point - and Mazdatrix sells a PS Box Re-seal kit - so I may go that route. New high-pressure hose was replaced when I put the pump back in. Reservoir return hose (low-pressure) looked fine.
As to RockAuto - I've had really spotty luck with using them for parts. At one point, they shipped me the wrong motor mount, and even after I sent them a picture of the old one sitting on top of the one they sent and the bolt holes are nowhere close - they said I was wrong, then wanted me to identify the part they sent.
Has anybody ordered Reman PS pump for 84/85-SE from RockAuto with success? Thanks,
The reservoir connection is just an O-ring which butts up against the lower portion of the pump, and it may have been leaking from there a bit, too. As it's not on the high-pressure side of the pump, I didn't replace the stock O-ring. Everything else looked good internally, and the pump works properly under power - it's just that either something on the pump is leaking or the steering box itself is leaking. I'm starting to put more emphasis on the steering box at this point - and Mazdatrix sells a PS Box Re-seal kit - so I may go that route. New high-pressure hose was replaced when I put the pump back in. Reservoir return hose (low-pressure) looked fine.
As to RockAuto - I've had really spotty luck with using them for parts. At one point, they shipped me the wrong motor mount, and even after I sent them a picture of the old one sitting on top of the one they sent and the bolt holes are nowhere close - they said I was wrong, then wanted me to identify the part they sent.
Has anybody ordered Reman PS pump for 84/85-SE from RockAuto with success? Thanks,
10-08-15, 11:16 AM
#6
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Thread Starter
Thanks for that note, I'm going to get under it this weekend and try and find the source of the leak. I'm not entirely convinced it's the pump - it could also be the steering box - and I already have the rebuild kit for that, as I ordered it from Mazdatrix way back when thinking it was the re-seal kit for the pump (*which is how it's marked on the Mazdatrix site!).
If it's the steering box - can the top and bottom seals be changed without removing the steering column and all associated attachments? From the FSM, it looks to be a serious PITA to remove the steering box entirely.
In the meantime, I drove the car to work again today and it really takes 2 hands to turn this car without power steering. I'm getting used to it, but my 80LS was never this hard to steer and had the same tire size (205) and suspension setup. Missing that light steering feel that made the car feel so nimble.
If it's the steering box - can the top and bottom seals be changed without removing the steering column and all associated attachments? From the FSM, it looks to be a serious PITA to remove the steering box entirely.
In the meantime, I drove the car to work again today and it really takes 2 hands to turn this car without power steering. I'm getting used to it, but my 80LS was never this hard to steer and had the same tire size (205) and suspension setup. Missing that light steering feel that made the car feel so nimble.
10-08-15, 01:35 PM
#7
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the manual steering box has the column on it, so the car needs to be way high up before the thing slides out.
i think you could actually change the seals in the car, although i'd pull it out
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