hypntyz7

I bought this car as my first 1gen project ever..I have very little experience with these, as compared to about 100 2gens. IT needs an interior and an engine, other than that its in pretty good shape IMO.

SO here are what I believe to be my options. I am doing this on a strict budget and Illk be doing all my own work. I dnt mind a bit of fabrication either, but I dont plan to use a haltech computer or the like...this car is just going to be a fun daily driver and hellraiser...I have a nice turbo II if I want to build a beast.

1) rebuild and port the 12a...very possible since it still ran and has bad coolant seals. IF I did this an exhaust would be my only mod to the car, along with maybe an air-->oil cooler.

2) rebuild and port a 6port 13b NA from an 86-88, or maybe even use 89-91 hicomp rotors. I have TONS of this stuff lying around so I could do this for virtually less than $400 in parts. I know there would be custom fabrication needed for a motor mount setup as well as possibly a driveshaft. I might try to use the 12a tranny on the 13b...would this work? THe main problem with this is, how do I control it?
a) control this with the stock 2gen EFI...use allthe wiring and components from a partscar and install what is necessary into the engie bay of the 1gen...very involved but possible and very cheap for me to do. Total cost under $500.
b) buy the 13b 6pi carb kit from racing beat when it arrives for $800, a very pricey option for a beater, but very simple to do.

3) rebuild a 13bt and install it witht he stock EFI from a 2gen as described above. Probably the most expensive option for me, and one that I really dont need to do. I already have a turbo II, and in reality I prefer an NA motor tuned right to a turbo anyday.

SO Im looking for experience from guys who have done this...mainly the 13b NA swap.

Some of my main conccerns, that I can find out myself, but I'd rather ask someone who has already been there:

1) does the stock 12a front cover fit a 13b engine? (this would allow me to use the stock 12a motor mounts and just modify their brackets from what I can tell).

2) does the stock 12a 5sp fit a 13b, and if so what flywheel/clutch/combo must be used. Remember that the flywheel/counterweight balances of some 13b's changed, so attention must be paid to this. Also, what starter gets used with what combination?

3) does a 1gen 12a 5sp driveshaft fit in a 2gen 13b tranny(nonturbo, and/or turbo II)?

Ill be back for more later. Thanks guys.

Felix Wankel

A 12A cover will fit the 13B, but you need a GSL-SE oil pan as well.

The 12A trans will bolt up fine to the 88 and below engine with its stock flywheel and clutch. The splines are the same too. Personally I would not bother putting an FC NA trans in there, you have to fab a mount, and its still a weak *** smoothcase trans, only with slightly different ratios. So it'd be more work for basically nothing.

hypntyz7

Why is this? Why can I not just use a 2gen oilpan and leave off the 2gen motor mounts? The pickup will be designed for a 2gen oilpan, as will the rest of the engine parts. IS there a conflict between the 12a front cover oilpan bolt pattern and the 2gen oilpan?

Great, good information, thanks for the reply. Exactly what Ive been wonderig about.

So now, other than the question about the oilpan, the only major obstacle I see to this is the control system for the 13b...carb or EFI. Hmmm...

I think how I would do it is take a 2gen 86-88 partscar and remove all its wiring forward of the dash. Use the stock 86-88 fuel injection, computer, and wiring. The only hard part, and it would be hard, would be to isolate what parts of the main drivers side harness from the 2gen are necessary to run the engine, and remove the rest of the **** related to running the 2gen car, like lights, dash, etc. adn get that out of my way. Maybe once I got into it, Id find it was really simple? Id probably mount the wiring and ecu in the engine bay, and protect the ecu by a waterproof box of somekind...this way I dont have to disturb the interior of the 1gen, adn all those lighting adn power systems can work as they did stock...if only I can make the stock stuff work again

Felix Wankel

I've heard the bolt patterns were a bit off, but I also think it will hit the corssmember, FB oilpans are virtually flat up front compared to an FC's. Now that I think about it, you may need the -SE pickup too.

You can mount the FC ECU inside the FB, there is an emissions computer in the passenger floorboard (like an FC) that you don't need, and the wiring harness feeds through in about the same place as an FC.

hypntyz7

Hmmm...food for thought. Ill have to check into it once I get the 12a out, do some measureing and mockups. Thanks.

Yes, but what about that big, thick *** drivers side/dash harness that runs fron the battery back to the dash, fusebox, then in to the computer? That is the thing I did not want to try and feed inside the FB interior, especially since it wont be running an FC dash.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Kevin the front cover from any rotary will work.. Theres something weird about the oil pans, I beleive you have to have a -SE... I think it has to do with the suspension below the pan?

I used a 12A oil pickup on my 13b-RE and it fits fine...

I cant remember, but I think 83 has the computer on the drivers side.. They didnt start the BIG *** POS under the passenger footwell till 84...

Another thing Kevin you will need to move the motor frontwards 3/4", so that everything lines up the same...

I bought the RB mount, but you can take a 12A mount and bend the part that goes to the front cover COMPLETELY flat and redrill the holes a little bit

Also on the drivers side of the motor mount, the corner where it mounts to the X-member will have to be cropped a little (you'll see when you get there)

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

OOOOOPPPSSS

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

) DAMN Forum sorry guys

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

) DAMN Forum sorry guys - Guess its either my PC or the forum locking up, i hit submit and it just sit there and sit there, so I backed up and tried agaoin and again

On the flywheel combos I havent a clue, I guess you could use an early 2nd gen flywheel. As long as the diameter is the same size.. Then the starter would depend on what tranny was used. and the ckutch of course depends on what flywheel is used?

Felix Wankel

Damn Mike, did you have a few last night or what?

Kevin, my friend Bryan has a 13BT in his 79 using the FC mounts. He made some adapters out of thick *** plate, if you wanted to try to do that instead. I told him to make a whole bunch and sell them, but he won't listen

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

No Felix, had the kid all weekend

But anyways, I dunno if its this PC or the forum, man it just sits there ans sits there...

Bryan wont listen to reason, but he might listen to money LOL

That one place gets damn near $500 for a set of them for a 20b, I paid $100 for the one from Racing Beat, their mount is no more than an old 12A mount, with the corners cut off, hammered flat, rewelded the ends, and crop the corner on the drivers side..

Felix Wankel

Maybe I'll convince him to, I kow he can sell them.

PS Mike your sig is fucked up.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I know ..

Felix Wankel

Your vert is purdier than a red x [img][/img] See?

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Well to be honest I kinda liked the red X. Actually the reason why I did it like that was because my sig takes up like 1k more than the maximum allowed but after seeing Kevins and some others, I figure why the fek not LOL

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

i have looked at this swap for a couple of months, it doesnt seem hard, just a lot of annoying **** that you have to deal with (mounts, oil pan, exhaust diffuser, exhaust, flywheel, intake) and most of this has to be done at once, with the 12a you could do it in stages.