ronnie4

3rd gen 13B TT into SA...

I'm looking to do this swap, got a lot of into from the FAQ. However a lot of the links about this swap were bad.

It looks like it will bolt in with a few GSL-SE parts, oil pan, motor mounts, etc and a custom driveshaft. However I have a few questions, how is the alignment of the shifter in comparison to the SA shifter, how hard is it to wire in the harness-how hard is it to adapt to the SA instrument cluster? Anyone have any pictures of this swap?

Thanks guys

-xlr8planet-

iTrader: (3)

shifter... about 3 inches down from the SA ones, about 1 and a half from the FB one

The rest comes down to what kind of fuel management you are planing to use.

Driving the speedometer is the less important thing you should worry about

I hope you have a deep pocket

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

See if this thread answers some of your questions.

https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-archive-71/engine-13b-rew-1st-gen-write-up-499454/

ronnie4

???

From what Ive read it doesnt seem TOO expensive, the engine bolts in with the correct mounts and oil pan right? It seems the only real custom work needed is the driveshaft and whatever I decided to do as far as a rear end.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

The REW engine itself is more expensive to rebuild. If you "hope" for great compression from a Jspec, you could be disapointed.

It all depends on the route you take.

1. Stock - Using a Jspec REW, Factory ECU and wiring harness, Stock twins, Factory clutch, REW 5spd, FB rearend, etc.

2. Complete setup - Jspec REW rebuilt, Stand Alone ECU and wiring harness, Big Single turbo setup, larger injectors and fuel rail, Stronger ignition, Aftermarket clutch, Choice of Tranny rebuilt, Ford 9" rearend, etc.

Both will require a quality fuel setup, custom exhaust, intercooler and oil cooler of sorts. And that's by far not everything. I will be going with #2 and my build list is close to $15k. You might be able to get away with #1 for $6-7K.

I would highly recommend building a parts list and a proccess list. Start researching all aspects of your project. (Bolt-in, Fuel control, Fuel supply, Ignition, Exhaust, Turbo, Intercooler, Oil cooler, Drivetrain, etc).

You will also want to make sure your car is above par in suspension and brakes.

Good luck.

-xlr8planet-

iTrader: (3)

well, if you use the fb motor mount, you gotta use a front cover from a 12a or SE. If you do, you cannot use the stock ecu. $$$ on stand alone

You have to either modify you fuel tank to add a fuel pump (in tank) or get an SE fuel tank and upgrade the fuel pump. $$$ on custom work or SE tank, plus walbro or aeromotive fuel pump...

Fuel lines and return lines must be changed...

I can go on...

6/7k is usually a lot of money for a first gen owner that probably got the car for a couple of hundreds. Most people (not all) gives up on projects like this one.

Not trying to burst your bubble, but you better do a lot of reading and a lot of math before you go for it

ronnie4

Here is a preliminary list, anything big I am missing?


Im going to swap is in in stock form now-I can always upgrade later as needed


Engine/tranny $2000
custom driveshaft $2-300
ford rear end (junkyard) $200
misc parts off of GSL-SE $200
oil cooler (junktard) 2nd gen $20
piping for exhaust $100
fuel management $200
-----------------------
$2920-3020

Obviously this isnt everything, but is there anthing else big I am missing? (besides the 13B rebuild kit)

I will do all welding myself

-xlr8planet-

iTrader: (3)

Are you taking the megasquirt route?
Usually on a project like this, when you make a budget, you gotta ad at least 50% more to your calculations

ronnie4

Probably just stock ECU for now, just to get the car up and running, and then go megasquirt in the future.

As far as the mounts and oil pan go, the 3rd gen engine does bolt in with the GSL-SE parts correct?

kgray

The ford 8.8 rear doesn't bolt right up at all. Shortening is needed, Then you will need all new brakes with the newly added power. You really want to go with the stock twins? Intercooler/piping/bov, you'll probably want new wheels and tires too

lupin

iTrader: (3)

If you are really interested in a project like this just *take your time* with things.

You should also rent a welder and learn how to weld! Doing this type of setup is gonna take a lot of mock up and if you don't have a welder on site it will take a lot longer.
Whatever you think the project is gonna cost just add $5-7k on to your guess price.

In the end *I think* you should just use a 89 13bT2 motor, a lot of people have already done that setup so getting answers to some questions will be a lot easier.

steve84GS TII

Stock 3rd gen ECU isnt going to work if you go for a 1st gen mounting system.
As stated before,the SE front cover is gonna eliminate the ability to run the factory 3rd gen crank fired ignition,since that system bolts to the 3rd gen front cover.There might be a way to make it work,but I wouldnt want to be the one to try and figure it out.

As an experienced "turbo engine-to-1st gen RX-7" swapper,I have to echo what the others have been saying from the start of this thread.I hope you have plenty of cash for the project and a steeled resolve to make it work.Your swimming into rarely traveled waters,so there wont be a lot of info and experience to fall back on.When it comes to FD engine swaps,there arent many of them out there.There are probably 20-30(or more) TII swapped 1st gens for each one with an FD swap,and theres a reason for that.

ronnie4

Thanks for the help guys,

Looks like TII swap would just be easier so I will proabbly just go that route. The reason I wanted to go the FD swap was because I heardthe TII block will start cracking at around 400hp (is this true?). As far as custom work goes, I am no stranger to it, I have a welder and can weld fairl well. SO that should not be too big of an issue at all.

Now I gotta go find a TII engine and tranny at a reasonable price...

kgray

400 hp is quadruple what the cars came with stock... you will probably run into other issues rather than block cracking. Robert at rotaryshack boosted a 12a to 720hp, with work of course.
FWIW the TII can be found cheaper than the REW. Bottom line, rebuild it before putting it in.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Yes, but he is talking about a TII engine, not a 12A.

A S5 (89-92) TII engine made 200hp from the factory. 400hp being fairly reliable is possible with a few precautions during the engine build and like any high HP rotary, it's all about tuning. If your drivetrain is in order then there should be no problems with the chassis handling the power.

You are much better off taking your time and building the car the way you want it, the first time. Going backwards will cost you much more time and money. Whether you use a REW or a TII engine, 400hp is going to require much more then a relativley stock setup.

steve84GS TII

The S4 rear irons are prone to cracking around the filter pad,when over 400HP.

The S5 engine adressed that weak point and is nearly on-par with the FD engine for internal robustness.If your seriously considering a 400+HP 1st gen,then your inevitably going to have an engine built by a pro.Either that,or your gonna be popping Jspec or tired junkyard engines at a discouraging rate.
When/if you have an engine built,most pros will use the most modern housings and intenals that are availible to them from Mazda,and that are appropriate for your application and HP levels.

I speak from over 7 years of daily driving my S5 TII powered,300HP 84'.......you dont need 400+HP on a street 1st gen.Its PLENTY enough just keeping an honest 300HP, going in a straight line. Over 400HP, and your seriously going to have to rework most of the car,chassis included.

ronnie4

Kinda new here...
What do S4 and S5 stand for?

The plan is to swap a motor in stock form and then upgrade from there. The car won't be my daily driver, so Im not TOO worried about making it reliable.

Thanks for the help guys

-xlr8planet-

iTrader: (3)

86 to 88 TII engines are S4

89 to 91 are S5

different compression and power ouput, also minor reliability mods.

steve84GS TII

Series 4 is all 2nd gens from 86-88.
Series 5 is all 2nd gens from 89-92.

The S5 was a facelift for the 2nd gen cars,to keep them current and make improvements throughout the car.
There were minor detail changes inside the engine,but pretty substantial changes on the outside.Most notably were the faster,smooth EFI system....the vastly improved turbo and manifold.....and the electronic oil metering pump.These and the chassis changes were standard on all S5 2nd gens,N/A or turbo.

twinkletoes

iTrader: (17)

Pm directfreak or modified85 about this. DF has a cosmo in his 85 se and modified85 has a 13b rew single turbo. they could prolly help you out a lot.

boriqua51371

z-beater has 13 rew as well he has a great write up on his . check the search button or pm z-beater.