20B in first gen???
Okay, if you're getting it done as we speak, show us some progress so we know what you have done. This way we don't suggest something you already have. Also, have you tried searching?
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=20b
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...=20b%2A+295%2A
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ght=20B+Series
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=20b
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...=20b%2A+295%2A
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ght=20B+Series
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
Originally Posted by anderdick88
hey buddy im not kidding, im getting it done as we speak, just wanted to now some more info, ill post pics one day,
I bet I get up pics of my first gen with the flux capacitor installation first.
B
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,972
Likes: 37
From: Ottawa, Soviet Canuckistan
because of the size of the engine and the location of the mounts, you have to make a decision on how you're going to put it in.
Best solution I've seen (in terms of simplicity) involved welding in a new crossmember further forward and using a GSL-SE front cover. That way you just bolt the engine to the trans for positioning, and mock up everything from there. You won't have to mess with cutting the firewall, shortening the driveshaft or moving the shifter that way.
Don't give lip, especially to people who have as good a reputation and as many posts as trochoid. It's the shortcut path to getting in trouble. He's right though, 20b swaps aren't cheap, and we get at least three or four people a month who come in here and within their first thirty posts say "I'm dropping in a 20b! Tell me how to do it! Can I do it cheap?" so we've covered this before. Most people don't realize how much fab work is involved.
Assuming you get the engine mounted, you now have to deal with the fuel delivery requirements. Your stock -SE pump isn't going to cut it, you'll need a new one, and probably some custom lines of a bigger diameter, not to mention that if you're staying turbo you'll need a good rising rate FPR. Turbos are covered more in the 2nd and 3rd gen sections, so you'll have to go there for more info.
It's amazingly tough to use the stock ECU to drive everything. Most 20b swaps I've seen either ditch the FI completely and go carb, or use an aftermarket ECU. That still doesn't address whether or not you can get the sequential twins working right. Again, many people drop them and just go N/A for simplicity, or change to one large turbo.
Either way, it's going to require custom piping for the exhaust and air supply, not to mention your biggass intercooler (you ARE going to run a biggass intercooler aren't you?).
And since you moved the crossmember forward, and you'll want to do some cooling upgrades for the 20b, you probably want to get an all-aluminum rad and find a way to mount it further forward and probably slanted. E-fan is a must, you can't do a mech fan off the 20b, there's no room. Don't forget the custom mounts for your oil cooler and custom lines (I recommend SS lines if you can swing it).
That's all I can think of for now. I really hope you manage to get it going, but it's gonna cost you a *ton* no matter how you slice it. Cheapest and easiest is probably N/A carbed, with sidedraft or downdraft carbs, though you'll probably have trouble sourcing manifolds and carbs... you basically have to find "half" of a 2-barrel for the 3rd rotor and find a way to hook it to the other two.
And whatever you do, don't say you're gonna make a kit so that everybody can do this on their own... We've heard that a million times and it never ends up happening because of the crazy nature of the swap.
Jon
Best solution I've seen (in terms of simplicity) involved welding in a new crossmember further forward and using a GSL-SE front cover. That way you just bolt the engine to the trans for positioning, and mock up everything from there. You won't have to mess with cutting the firewall, shortening the driveshaft or moving the shifter that way.
Don't give lip, especially to people who have as good a reputation and as many posts as trochoid. It's the shortcut path to getting in trouble. He's right though, 20b swaps aren't cheap, and we get at least three or four people a month who come in here and within their first thirty posts say "I'm dropping in a 20b! Tell me how to do it! Can I do it cheap?" so we've covered this before. Most people don't realize how much fab work is involved.
Assuming you get the engine mounted, you now have to deal with the fuel delivery requirements. Your stock -SE pump isn't going to cut it, you'll need a new one, and probably some custom lines of a bigger diameter, not to mention that if you're staying turbo you'll need a good rising rate FPR. Turbos are covered more in the 2nd and 3rd gen sections, so you'll have to go there for more info.
It's amazingly tough to use the stock ECU to drive everything. Most 20b swaps I've seen either ditch the FI completely and go carb, or use an aftermarket ECU. That still doesn't address whether or not you can get the sequential twins working right. Again, many people drop them and just go N/A for simplicity, or change to one large turbo.
Either way, it's going to require custom piping for the exhaust and air supply, not to mention your biggass intercooler (you ARE going to run a biggass intercooler aren't you?).
And since you moved the crossmember forward, and you'll want to do some cooling upgrades for the 20b, you probably want to get an all-aluminum rad and find a way to mount it further forward and probably slanted. E-fan is a must, you can't do a mech fan off the 20b, there's no room. Don't forget the custom mounts for your oil cooler and custom lines (I recommend SS lines if you can swing it).
That's all I can think of for now. I really hope you manage to get it going, but it's gonna cost you a *ton* no matter how you slice it. Cheapest and easiest is probably N/A carbed, with sidedraft or downdraft carbs, though you'll probably have trouble sourcing manifolds and carbs... you basically have to find "half" of a 2-barrel for the 3rd rotor and find a way to hook it to the other two.
And whatever you do, don't say you're gonna make a kit so that everybody can do this on their own... We've heard that a million times and it never ends up happening because of the crazy nature of the swap.
Jon
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love the braaaap
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,771
Likes: 5
From: Bognor, Ontario
Why half of a 2 barrel? You could run a "6 pack" with smaller carbs. Basically 1 barrel for the primary port and 1 for the secondary port of each rotor. Might actually work quite well and make some nice power. I'm thinking Weber IDA with small chokes in it.
7-less
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,053
Likes: 0
From: No. Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Beep777
23 whole posts and he is giving lip to Troch?
I know, right? You got to have at least 400 posts before you can do that! Ain't that right, Mr. T?
Oooh, I pity da fool! Quick, into the A-7!
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Im sorry if it came off that way, but just droped of my car at JPR which is a major distrubutor of JDM motors here in LA, CALIF it is going to cost me about 12grand they say that includes the motor, microtech, drive shaft, and all required mods, the motor has about 30K miles saw the front CLIP and he played me the video of the engine running when it was in JAPAN, just wanted to know the bassis THANKS
Originally Posted by Beep777
23 whole posts and he is giving lip to Troch?
B
B
He asked what is a general newb question and I gave him a flippant answer with a dash of truth. When he posts pics/vids of his 20B, then we can all be happy.
Somedays it's hard not to have a 'ReTed' attitude.
You gotta love ReTed, hes got a wealth of knowlegde and takes **** from no one.
As for the original post, do a search seriously, and I too would like to know why your asking such a broad question about something your "having some else do" hmm....
As for the original post, do a search seriously, and I too would like to know why your asking such a broad question about something your "having some else do" hmm....
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
just wanted to now what Im getting in to, because u know shops always under quote u and, always end up being more money at the end, just hope everything goes well, hopefully could drive it to the next 7stock to meet some of u guys that are from LA
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,740
Likes: 6
From: Las Vegas, NV
Ya, it will probably go more and trochoid is right on the price. If you already have it in the shop it should definately be ready for Sevenstock 10 which is next fall. Can you post some progess pics?
Terrified.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,463
Likes: 1
From: Muncie, IN
Well good luck with your car. Are you used to driving high horsepower, lighter weight vehicles? Its definitely not going to be the gradual steps from stock to modded like the majority of the rest of us, and could be a lot to handle.
Also, what are you doing for suspension upgrades? Interior changes? Any body modifications at all? How wide of tires? Upgrading brakes as well?
Those are all things that will need to be done to compliment the power of the car. You don't want to be underbraking everywhere when you take off like a bat out of hell, and you don't want a car that is still sporting 20-something year old suspension bits that are blown, or broken and make for an extremely unsafe car.
Also, what are you doing for suspension upgrades? Interior changes? Any body modifications at all? How wide of tires? Upgrading brakes as well?
Those are all things that will need to be done to compliment the power of the car. You don't want to be underbraking everywhere when you take off like a bat out of hell, and you don't want a car that is still sporting 20-something year old suspension bits that are blown, or broken and make for an extremely unsafe car.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
sure will as soon as the motor goes in the first gen, the reason im doing the 20B because I already got the ford rear end done so mines well go all the way and dont have to worry about tearing it up, like I did with the turbo II motor I had in there, and if any body is interested in buying that motor just PM me if u live in the area still runs strong
only 12k for everything??? Damn, you need to post this up when it's done and the progress as it goes. If it's done well, then I'll ship my car to Cali for the work....But I'll be shocked if it is that cheap....
7-less
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,053
Likes: 0
From: No. Virginia, USA
Well, it is a used engine from Japan. So, say maybe $10K for the motor and shipping and $2K for the labor? I'm just grabbing numbers here, really.
But then again, as it was said with the shops, during the middle of it, they just might find something to jack up the price. Maybe the alternator fluid needs to be changed.
But then again, as it was said with the shops, during the middle of it, they just might find something to jack up the price. Maybe the alternator fluid needs to be changed.
Originally Posted by 85 FB
Well, it is a used engine from Japan. So, say maybe $10K for the motor and shipping and $2K for the labor? I'm just grabbing numbers here, really.
But then again, as it was said with the shops, during the middle of it, they just might find something to jack up the price. Maybe the alternator fluid needs to be changed.
But then again, as it was said with the shops, during the middle of it, they just might find something to jack up the price. Maybe the alternator fluid needs to be changed.
lol you really did make numbers out of your head didint you.... you can get a used 3rotor for 1800-5500. 5500 being the whole front clip most the time.
12k dose not seem to far off for some1 doing it them selfs. but for a shop to be doing it its a little cheep. unless they do alot of them and are fast at them..
12k is for sure only the motor/trans swap....
also 85 FB he said he was using a micro tech so he is keepin it FI
i like the 12a to much to swap a 20b in it...the only thing i will take the 12a out for would be a 4 rotor... altho i would cut the fire wall and tunnal with either a 3 or 4 rotor swap. to get more weight on the rear end... dont need it to be nose heavy
and there is nothing wrong with getting a little lip with trochoid
me and him have had arguments from time to time and im still going to buy a carb from him if he ever send the pics 
cheers PaTricK
Terrified.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,463
Likes: 1
From: Muncie, IN
I'm with Patrick on this one, I like the 12A way too much to drop anything else in there; however, I love seeing three rotor swaps a lot. Really amazing to see three rotors sitting in something so old. It makes me feel like people still care about these old things.
