Chemical

I believe the lightest 1st gens were the 79-80 S (4spd) at 2350 lbs

what does an 81-83 GS weigh?

SilverRocket

The 83's weigh 2285. The 82's supposedly weigh 2335, but that figure is with AC. I'm not definite on the 81's.

Reason I know this, is because Rxcetera (who isn't around here much anymore, but is a friend of mine) has the original Mazda brochures for each model year.

Anyways, the SA's are heavier

Sterling

I would like to know how the first gen 84-85 stacks up to newer cars regarding suspension.
Obviously suspension is much more complex in FWD and AWD cars. I would imagine it's alot different in even the simplest cars these days (I don't know what they're like...it why I'm asking).
So lets list some cars that are no older than ten years that are worse (or should we list "better"?), but start with cars that have solid rear axel set ups like ours first - then progress from there.


...orrr, we could all just talk and hope something worth arguing over comes up.

PaulFitzwarryne

Silverrocket- I fully support that if you get enjoyment improving you car, that improvement is well worthwhile. I spend hours working on my boat when I could get someone else to do it at a fraction of my time costs. But the sense of personal acheivement is belong price.

Secondly I agree that the RX-7 can be improved to make it a better car. Like you I have improved the handling by poly bushes, Konis and upgraded swaybars, while the power performance is improved by a header and modified carb. Mostly they are in the field of better relacements , with tires being a great example. The standard has really improved in the past twenty years. These all improve street performance.

It really is a question of degree. You can always improve performance by modifications, unfortunately its a reducing return so finally it becomes a question of how fast you want to spend your money.

The point I was trying to make was it is always possible to beat most modern cars if you have a big budget. I was questioning why it was important to beat a certain car, say a Civic. Is it really worth while, can I brag about the fact. If the other owner is worried by being a car length slower then you can always end up in a modification war.

The SA was well ahead of its time, but 20 years later the general run of cars have caught up. As you say its my personal view that you can get caught up with trying to keep ahead by modifications well outside the original spec- for example transplanting a REW engine. But when does it stop being a gen 1 and end up being a hybred?

Long live the 12A!!!

Sterling

Well, since no one seems to want to discuss the ******* thread topic, I guess I'll try to **** everyone off with my two cents as well.
I like boats. Alot. And someday, I hope to own just a little bitty one that I can take into the Hudson river every spring.

But my point in saying something so crappy, like "Boats suck!", was simply to illustrate that to SilverRocket, myself, and most of the guys here, our sportscar is our boat!!!

You scrub the snot off the bow to keep her healthy as part of routine or seasonal maintainance, right? I use a toothbrush on my wheels.
Where you might look at a catalogue where you can order a sail with your family crest embroidered on it...I price paint jobs with the new "Harlequin" paint that changes color with angle of sight.

...Shall I go on? My point is not that everyone wants to "one-up" the punk with the really loud Civic that never seems to get hasseled by the local cops, though this may well be the case for many. But rather, I'm trying to illustrate the glory of sheer pride in what I concider to be my hobby. It does'nt mean I love my car more than you because I want to put a supercharger on it. It only means two things: #1, I love to tinker and tune and get grease under my nails and make my car shiney..., and #2
...I don't have a boat!

But you can't change how people treat their cars or hobbies, just as my wife can't understand my passion for playing with my car.

It's just the way it is!

Now- about the suspension comparisons...?

rotorhead

hehe... suspension comparisons? to be honest, i've never paid attention to just what all i could outcorner. i'd guess that its just about everything i come up against! i can't count how many times i'll have some jerk in a ricemobile/sportscar/SUV/whatever try to ride my *** going into a turn(onramp, offramp,etc). the funny part is i generally don't slow for these turns, i accel! and usually halfway thru the turn these dumbasses run themselves off the road. granted, a LOT has to do with the driver, but i'd say the fb's can corner with the best of 'em. btw, my susp isn't stock.... poly bush, eibachs, tokico hps,etc. i can't imagine what it'll be like when i get 16's on there and a good set of sway bars! i do believe a lot of the newer cars' susp have more of a comfort factor dialed in. i can feel when i run over small pebbles!

PaulFitzwarryne

The RX-7 was very good for late 70s considering the cost savings imposed on the engineers. Its not in the same league as modern sports cars from the MX5 to the 911. However it handles better than smaller cars as their suspension design is optimised for slow speed urban situations.

The stock performance can be significantly by poly bushes, good shocks and upgraded sway bars. I believe the impact is on handling on curves above about 45mph. Sharp curves say 30mph advisory still limited by the stock steering set-up.

I am not convinced larger wheels improves road performance. The harder characteristics of low profile tires may have an adverse impact unless the whole suspension is tuned to them. I borrowed a set of 16" and over a 700 mile trip found they were not so forgiving on bumps and curves. Perhapsits may style of driving and use but I find 205-60-14s are the best for normal driving.

When driving a modern car with similar performance to a modified RX-7 I find it more stable and relaxing o drive. My RX seems to require more steering concentration to keep it accurately on line, to what extent its due to power steering I don't know.

Ironically the reason why I prefer the RX for long trips is that it requires a driving style which keeps you awake. I have the use of a new V8 top of the range car, it worries me because its so quiet that its like looking at a TV screen with the sound off. After 4 or so hours its easy to fall asleep or be lulled nto taking a bend to quickly. The RX is therefore safer as you have no time to nod-off.

To sum up. I think the RX-7 suspension is well behind a modern sports car but can still be modified to meet all the needs of a moderately modified engine. Above say 250 hp mods, I think it may be a mismatch as brakes and steering are inadequate except in a straight 1/4 drag.

Right off the thread, two of the reasons I like sailing are the freedom and physical exercise, but most important where ever I go in the world dropping into the bar of the local sailing club means finding instant friends and social lfe.

Sterling

I was'nt cutting on your sailing, Paul. It was just "your thing" that you do, and a convienient example to illustrate my point - especially since you had brought it up.
See, I like to drive my sports car. I feel free inside it, and I like the social aspects of it of being a "car guy". Modding my car is like tuning my carburetor - I know I'll never stop doing it. It'll always need a tune-up or a mod. It's a compulsion!
For comparable physical exercise, I landscape or mountain bike.

Same rewards, different hobbies.

suntzumd

I'm a new seven owner and I have come to a few conclusions. There are many cars faster off the line than my GSL-SE. But few are as cool, as fun to drive, as cheap to own, or deliver the feel of driving a classic sports car and shifting gear's through the curves and climbing up the tail pipe of a $30K + car and see them look in the mirror in disbelief and then admiration!

Winnipeg85GSL

...... or you could throw in a 302 and beat FD's

Felix Wankel

LOL Granny's should give you a Nomex fire suit with their kit if you post on the forum

peejay

Could be better. Mazda dropped the ball when they altered the geometry starting in '84.

peejay

You can "beat FDs" with the stock 12A... after the FD eats its third or fourth engine, the 12A just sails right past....

1_dollar_83_RX7

what exactly is so bad about the 84-85 suspension, i read it is because because the lower control arm is 20mm farther back or somehting...

REVHED

The only difference in the Series 3 suspension (AFAIK) is the location of the chassis mounting point for the lower control arm. Maybe peejay can enlighten us to why this is a bad thing?

Zulu

I've only lost to one car.... a corvette z06

Other than that, the fastest thing I've run is a BPU MKIII Supra and we're almost even, I still inch away from him.

PaulFitzwarryne

Sterling, I agree with you its great fun to drive a sports car, and having built my first car from scratch agree with Silver Rocket that the time spent on modifying your pride joy is worth wellwhile.

Really what I was concrned about was the reason for modifying. If its to beat a specific modern non-performance car, such as a Honda then I somehow miss the point. Modify your car for better performance and enjoyment, that I fullt support. You are an expert on carbs, the question is do you do it primarily to out drag an old Mustang at the traffic lights, or make your RX-7 feel better on the open road?

I fully believe in the benefit of suspension modifications. Brian Long in his book on the RX-7s gives a good example. A magazine road test of a modification showed the average speed on a slalom course increased to57.6mph from 52.9mph. The modification by a firm called Quicker Engineering was stronger sway bars, stiffer springs and poly bushes. This is what I have done along with Koni shocks and better braking.

While there are many comparisons from 1980 of rival sports cars, I have not found any road test of modern cars giving the same information. They tend to concentrate on fuel consumptiom and 1/4 times. These only give part of the story. Years ago I nearly bought a new Morgan V8, straight line acceleration was fantastic, but it cornered like a truck. Result no sale!

To restate my earlier comment, the SA/FB RX-7 was ahead of its time, but modern sports cars are now well ahead. OK it can still beat a small family Honda, but if you really want o see the improvement in modern cars, drive a 20 year old model! Try a 350Z against the 240Z or 280Z.