14000 RPM? Possible?
06-29-02, 02:18 AM
#1
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14000 RPM? Possible?
My friend says he knows a guy that owns a 1st gen that he built that revs to 14 grand, i told him hes full of crap, but he keeps insisting. Since im a little ignorant about first gens, im not sure, but it is a non turbo. Thx
06-29-02, 02:55 AM
#3
Re: 14000 RPM? Possible?
Originally posted by 30psiBoost
My friend says he knows a guy that owns a 1st gen that he built that revs to 14 grand, i told him hes full of crap, but he keeps insisting. Since im a little ignorant about first gens, im not sure, but it is a non turbo. Thx
My friend says he knows a guy that owns a 1st gen that he built that revs to 14 grand, i told him hes full of crap, but he keeps insisting. Since im a little ignorant about first gens, im not sure, but it is a non turbo. Thx
06-29-02, 08:14 AM
#4
As for a tack, you can get streetbike tacks from autometer that go realy high. You'll probably have to contact autometer...but they do make them.
As for revving. It is possiable to have a 14k rpm engine. Likely? NO. Rob at Pineapple Racings own personal Peripheral Port 13B would spin to 15k i beleive. To be honest, last i heard the was apart. In the 6-7yrs i've known him, i have never seen the rotor housings of the engine. Not because they where'nt in his shop, but because he did'nt want anyone to see the port design. No big deal to me. When spinning a that high, you have to be carefull of clutchs, pressure plates, and ring gears coming apart. If you ever make it to his shop, take a look at the pressure plate/ring gear that came apart at around 13k.
He never did find the starter....CJ
As for revving. It is possiable to have a 14k rpm engine. Likely? NO. Rob at Pineapple Racings own personal Peripheral Port 13B would spin to 15k i beleive. To be honest, last i heard the was apart. In the 6-7yrs i've known him, i have never seen the rotor housings of the engine. Not because they where'nt in his shop, but because he did'nt want anyone to see the port design. No big deal to me. When spinning a that high, you have to be carefull of clutchs, pressure plates, and ring gears coming apart. If you ever make it to his shop, take a look at the pressure plate/ring gear that came apart at around 13k.
He never did find the starter....CJ
06-29-02, 09:33 AM
#5
well, just to echo what pp13bnos said, it is "possible" but not very likely. is this a car that your friend says he drives on the street? because that's a sure fire way to prove that he's full of ... shhh...tuff!
an engine like that would be hella expensive, first of all ... (exotic coatings and materials and such) second of all ... it probably would not idle at less than say ... 4,000 to 5,000 RPM. it would be burn up (or blow up) any muffler less than 3 inches ... and you know what your own streetcar sounds like at 5,000 RPM with a full exhaust ... try to imagine what that engine is going to sound like with a few feet of big bore pipes and a muffler that's there for most decoration ...
you starting to get the drift?
hehehe
an engine like that would be hella expensive, first of all ... (exotic coatings and materials and such) second of all ... it probably would not idle at less than say ... 4,000 to 5,000 RPM. it would be burn up (or blow up) any muffler less than 3 inches ... and you know what your own streetcar sounds like at 5,000 RPM with a full exhaust ... try to imagine what that engine is going to sound like with a few feet of big bore pipes and a muffler that's there for most decoration ...
you starting to get the drift?
hehehe
06-29-02, 10:44 AM
#6
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Yeah, I agree with the masses. Possible but not likely. You would need a scatter shield just so the clutch assembly doesn't kill/maime who ever is in the car if it comes apart. Does the guy race the car or something? I don't know anyone who would pay that type of money to put the engine into a daily driver. just my $.02
(P.S. revving to 14K )
(P.S. revving to 14K
)
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06-29-02, 01:16 PM
#8
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I have heard before of a company that had a 18,000rpm rotary for racing, but... i think they were in the upper $30,000 US range - for the engine alone... probly had too be rebuilt every 4 hrs or every race.. but i doubt this guy has one that goes to 14k , unless he's stupid and Bill Gates...
06-29-02, 01:56 PM
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Ya That realy is not possible, its not even possible for any one using a e shaft that is made of the stock material. Once past 9k the shaft starts to flex and then the rotors start to contact the housings, but with side cut rotors that can be remedied but not cured.
pp13bnos-
was that engine using a shaft made of stock material? If it was i kind doubt that he could repediatly rev to 15k. I have know a guy that did a lot of development with the bridge port stuff and he made s capable of 111-13k, but thats the highers i have realy heard of. I mean i dont doubt that he pushed mabe 15k once or twice but repeatedly is kinda hard for me to swallow. Especialy since rob uses mostly all the factory housings which witht the angles that those use realy dont allow for that high of rpm.
CJG
pp13bnos-
was that engine using a shaft made of stock material? If it was i kind doubt that he could repediatly rev to 15k. I have know a guy that did a lot of development with the bridge port stuff and he made s capable of 111-13k, but thats the highers i have realy heard of. I mean i dont doubt that he pushed mabe 15k once or twice but repeatedly is kinda hard for me to swallow. Especialy since rob uses mostly all the factory housings which witht the angles that those use realy dont allow for that high of rpm.
CJG
06-29-02, 05:39 PM
#10
Ive heard of the 18000 rotary too.
What I dont understand is how Spoon sports can make at boinger 22h vtec spin 14000 and is a huge deal to make a rotary spin that fast.
By the way. you can buy that 14000rpm 450hp spoon engine for $16000.
There is also a NSX that spins 12500 and makes 650 hp or some insane **** like that.
What I dont understand is how Spoon sports can make at boinger 22h vtec spin 14000 and is a huge deal to make a rotary spin that fast.
By the way. you can buy that 14000rpm 450hp spoon engine for $16000.
There is also a NSX that spins 12500 and makes 650 hp or some insane **** like that.
06-29-02, 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by cmartinp28
what rpm can the stock fd engine reach with the proper modifications?
what rpm can the stock fd engine reach with the proper modifications?
A 13brew has no advantiges over any other rotary for reving if you mod them properly.
MIke
06-29-02, 06:09 PM
#14
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nooooooooo...... i meant modifications as in external mods....... and leaving the engine stock by itself......... w/o changing the stationary gears, e shaft, rotors, bearings, apex seals., etc.
06-29-02, 06:14 PM
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Oh, That makes a differance then. I don't know but I wouldn't want to rev any stock rotary over 10k. And even then only for quick burst. Usually you don't want to keep a rotary over 8,500 RPM for very long.
MIke
MIke
06-29-02, 06:36 PM
#18
well, i've always read that stock engines should not go over 8,500 RPM - they are capable of reaching 9,000, provided they have the fuel and air to do so, but the problem then becomes the weight of the apex seals.
if you use the race apex seals or sodium-packed seals (not sure if they are the same) then you can run up to about 12,000 RPM (bridge or peripheral port) before you have to start worrying about the housings and the eccentric shaft ...
that's where the exotic metals come in ... shaft, seals, housings, etc. then the rotors have to be lightened, and i mean ... LIGHTENED!!! also, the compression has to be raised to obscene levels ... and that's pronounced, ahem ... "custom made rotors!!!"
14,000, maybe 15,000 RPM is then possible, but i never heard about them getting to 18,000 RPM - and i personally doubt it, but i'm not going to say that they don't exist!
of course with that kind of RPM, you need to worry about a fuel that will run the engine, a tranny (or rather ratios and lubrication) that will keep up with it, a carbon fiber drive shaft, clutch, ballistic blanket (more like a freakin' shroud of titanium to keep a clutch debris from making you know what it felt like for Mussolini ...) and a shitload of other reinforcements ...
at that point, forget about exhaust pipes - 7,000 RPM makes a thick-*** RB header glow ... try 15,000 RPM of aviation fueled fury ...
see where the costs come in?
if you use the race apex seals or sodium-packed seals (not sure if they are the same) then you can run up to about 12,000 RPM (bridge or peripheral port) before you have to start worrying about the housings and the eccentric shaft ...
that's where the exotic metals come in ... shaft, seals, housings, etc. then the rotors have to be lightened, and i mean ... LIGHTENED!!! also, the compression has to be raised to obscene levels ... and that's pronounced, ahem ... "custom made rotors!!!"
14,000, maybe 15,000 RPM is then possible, but i never heard about them getting to 18,000 RPM - and i personally doubt it, but i'm not going to say that they don't exist!
of course with that kind of RPM, you need to worry about a fuel that will run the engine, a tranny (or rather ratios and lubrication) that will keep up with it, a carbon fiber drive shaft, clutch, ballistic blanket (more like a freakin' shroud of titanium to keep a clutch debris from making you know what it felt like for Mussolini ...) and a shitload of other reinforcements ...
at that point, forget about exhaust pipes - 7,000 RPM makes a thick-*** RB header glow ... try 15,000 RPM of aviation fueled fury ...
see where the costs come in?
06-29-02, 06:51 PM
#20
well, i'm only guessing, but i may be wrong (so don't crucify me ) ... but i'm thinking the only port design that's going to get you to the stratosphere is the peripheral port. i've never driven one and i have no paper printouts of power curves on that type of engine, but my guess it that it will pretty much make nothing below ... say ... 6,000 RPM ... but it will make power right up to a few hundred RPM shy of the established terminal RPM. i'm guessing that since it can't get around the laws of physics and chemistry, then the usual intake and timing manipulations of the power curve will work, albeit not on the level of us "mere mortals" - computers and the geeks that REALLY know how to use them.
anyone out there that has experience with peripheral ports, please chime in ... this has piqued my curiosity ...
) ... but i'm thinking the only port design that's going to get you to the stratosphere is the peripheral port. i've never driven one and i have no paper printouts of power curves on that type of engine, but my guess it that it will pretty much make nothing below ... say ... 6,000 RPM ... but it will make power right up to a few hundred RPM shy of the established terminal RPM. i'm guessing that since it can't get around the laws of physics and chemistry, then the usual intake and timing manipulations of the power curve will work, albeit not on the level of us "mere mortals" - computers and the geeks that REALLY know how to use them.anyone out there that has experience with peripheral ports, please chime in ... this has piqued my curiosity ...
06-29-02, 07:17 PM
#22
well, aside from a few articles which basically said the same things ... all i know about the Renesis s are that they moved the exhaust to the side housings and that the engine is a LOT more efficient at combustion because of it ... as for RPM limits ... i'm at a loss.
anyone care to shed some light on it?
besides ... are they available for people like us to get our hands on them? (just asking, not being facetious)
anyone care to shed some light on it?
besides ... are they available for people like us to get our hands on them? (just asking, not being facetious)
06-29-02, 07:26 PM
#24
How does the renisis make so much power at such a high rpm with NO TIMING OVERLAP.
In fact, there is about 5 degrees between when the exhaust closes and when the intake opens.
I know the renisis has a crazy tuned intake but that cant make up for no overlap
In fact, there is about 5 degrees between when the exhaust closes and when the intake opens.
I know the renisis has a crazy tuned intake but that cant make up for no overlap