z-beater

13b-rew write-up:

I have had a lot of questions in the past about putting a rew motor in a 1st gen. Each PM takes a considerable amount of time to answer. I would like to create a living, breathing thread where questions can be asked on an on going basis. I am not going to go too in-depth but this should help in answering some of the cloudy areas.

If there are questions that you may have that I did not address feel free to ask. Read through the entire thread before you ask a question.

Note: this thread is specifically geared to the rew.

1. Engine mock-up: The initial installation of the rew motor into a first gen is very easy. For simplicity sake lets say that you have a complete block from a 3rd gen.

If you are running a JDM motor and do not intend on rebuilding I highly recommend checking the endplay. This will give you an idea of how much slop is in the motor(.04-.07mm). This is a pretty easy process and well worth the time. If you are re-building your motor you can skip this step since your endplay should already be adjusted.

Once you have checked the endplay you will remove the front cover bolt, pulleys, water pump and CAS magnetic pickups, etc. This will expose the front portion of your engine. When I personally removed my front cover I checked the wear on the oil chain/ pump just to ensure that it was within clearance. You might have a few problems removing the front cover bolt. A little heat and a stout impact gun should do the trick

While you have the front cover off I recommend installing the oil drain for the turbo. If you are running the stock twins you will eliminate one of the oil drains when you swap the front covers. Since I never ran the stock twins I cannot comment on a solution. If you are running a single turbo you can remove the OMP and drill and tap for a fitting there. 10AN fitting fits beautifully right below the OMP.

Now it is time for re-assembly. You will need a 1st gen front cover, new gaskets and any other mods that you prefer. One thing to keep in mind is that there is one bolt that will not be present on the 1st gen front cover. It is essential that you get a good seal. I use non-hardening permatex on either side of the front gasket. You also should use the 3rd gen front hub assembly.

Installing the oil pan is a little more tricky. You will find out that not all of the oil pan bolts will match up. You have a few options with this. You can drill new holes into the oil pan, or you can drill and tap the block. Either method is not easy and will be a little time consuming.

Once this is done you are ready to put the motor in the car. This should be self explanatory. I recommend using an aftermarket type of motor mount. I personally went with Banzai racings Poly-urethane motor mounts.

There are a couple other ways to do this swap. I have seen a lot of different methods. Personally I found this the easiest. Other ways are not wrong, just different.

2.Transmission mock-up: There are a couple people running 3rd gen transmissions. Personally I used a 2nd gen transmission for a few reasons(I recommend a S5). 1. It utilizes the same type of clutch. 2. 2nd transmissions are very strong, some say as strong as a FD trans. 3. FC transmissions are cheaper and easier to find. 4. FC turbo clutches are cheaper and easier to find 5. You can modify the shifter location on a FC transmission.

There are no mounting issues with the FC transmission. It will bolt up perfectly to the FD block. On my specific application I used a FD flywheel and a TII starter. I also used a TII clutch and pressure plate.

There are a lot of threads on modifying the shifter location. Some feel that the stock location is just fine, and I am sure that it is. If you want to have the stock location you will end up moving the shifter ~31mm towards the bell housing. I personally decided to move the shifter since I liked the stock location. If you are swapping this into a SA you will most likely have to move that location even closer to the bell housing.

I also recommend that you replace your slave cylinder with a TII unit. These are a little tougher and will hold up to more abuse.

In order to get the pinion angles lined up you will need to make a spacer. If memory serves me correctly the S5 mounting setup is slightly different than the S4. I will explain how I did the S5 setup. On the S5 there is a lower and upper bracket. These two pieces will come apart. Separate the parts and junk the lower unit. The upper unit has a bolt that used to tie it to the lower bracket. This bolt will allow you to mate the two pieces. You now will place a .5” spacer between the stock 1st gen lower and the S5 upper bracket. This will ensure that your pinion angles are in the right spot. Drill a hole through your spacer so that the bolt from the upper unit can pass through the lower unit.

In addition to this you will need to get a custom driveline. You cannot modify the FD driveline but you have the option of 1st gen or 2nd gen. Talk to a custom driveline shop, they will be happy to make one up for you to the tune of $250-300.

3. Cooling: For cooling I recommend refreshing your stock 3 core unit. If you do not have a 3 core radiator you should go buy one. This is the most affordable method and many people have had success with it. Personally went with a custom setup and fabricated the mounts.

4. ECU: I did not want to mess with the stock ECU since I was running such a modified setup. If you are going to swap in a totally stock motor you can use the stock ECU. Once you start modifying the motor you will need to upgrade to a standalone. A lot of FD owners will install a Power FC after down pipe, mid pipe, exhaust and intercooler.

5. Miscellaneous Electronics: Since you are now using the 1st gen front cover you will notice that you cannot connect your stock 3rd gen CAS pickups. The easiest solution is to use a 2nd gen CAS. These are very affordable and there is no difference between the NA and turbo models.

If you are running any sort of modified turbo setup up I would recommend installing a MSD with stock 2nd gen coils. MSD actually has a rotary technician that recommends this. All S5 coils are the same so it does not matter if they come from an NA car or a turbo model.

6. Intercooler. There are a number if intercoolers that you can use. You will not want to go much
larger than 12” tall and 24” wide. Use a little ingenuity and place the intercooler in front of the radiator. The more spacing that you can provide the better.

You will also find that if you use an intercooler that enters and exits on opposite sides you will need to relocate you battery. I have seen a few setups that utilize an intercooler that enters and exist on the passenger side. By doing this you will not need to relocate you battery.

7. Fuel: If you are trying to do this swap affordably you can use the GSL-SE feed lines and tank. I would recommend that you invest in an aftermarket fuel pump though. There are plenty of external pumps that will work. I also recommend that you either upgrade the feed wire to your fuel pump to 8-10ga. The stock wire is pretty small. If you feel like going overboard you can install a separate relay to your fuel pump.


If there are any questions feel free to ask. If you need to see pictures let me know.
Dave

ccauley

This is exactly what i was looking for. I am in the middle of this. I just finished remoiving everything, i mean everything, out of my engine bay and i am clkeaning, primeing and painting. i have a 3rd gen rebuilt and ported with a new front cover and oil pan ready for my 85 gsl-se.

This post will help very much.

What did you do for the manifolds, throttle body etc......JDM?

I had planned on buying a JDM and then not using the motor that comes with it and using my new one. I figure it will cost much less to use a JDM then go completely aftermarket or stock one pice at a time.

I had not planned on swapping the transmission but.... based on your post i may just do that. I will also not use the twin turbos.

Thanks again for your post....good stuff.... will print and keep handy

z-beater

JDM or USDM will fit.

For the intake manifold it is all stock. I blocked off all the unnecessary equipment, removed the second set of butterflies, and a few other random things. The more simple the better.

8. Speedo Cable: A stock unit will work. It is plug and play

9. Throttle cable: I have seen a couple people use TII cables but personally I like the looks of the FD cable better. The fit is a lot better. You will also need to modify your gas pedal. Once you install the throttle cable(FD or TII) there will be a little slop. I am sure that some people live with it but I just welded on an extension to remove the 'extra' amount of cable.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Two questions.

Would you recommend a Walbro 255lph if, say you have a GSL-SE tank with stock 8mm (5/16") send and return lines?

As for the throttle cable, I have an FD plastic pedal. Do you have any ideas about the difficulty level in installing it? I assume once it's installed, the cable slack issue will be no more.

One more question. Is there a length issue using the stock FB throttle cable, and is that why the cable must be changed? Thanks.

ccauley

I have not done any welding yet but it looks like when it comes time for the transmission i will have to learn. Not exactly a bad thing to learn.

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

somewhat relevant:
we modified a 2nd gen trans mount bracket (grinded, hammered, and welded) for the trans in his car ('79) because I was getting uneasy about the fact of only having 2 bolts in the far front of the engine, as well as the other 2 holding up the tranny---all while putting down 350 rwhp+ The stock 1st gen trans bracket setup was also really "flexible" as well. Now there are 6 bolts.

Lil Red Resurected From Dead

This question pertains to the install but a little different I may be purchasing a long block assembly of the rew with tranny with streetport however the turbos are not installed or included and the motor is set up for N/A tuning my car is a 79 what will I have to do to get this running in my car? I know it is easier in an FB than an SA. Can you help? Also is it worth my time and money to do this swap the motor is freshly rebuilt.

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

So you are keeping it in N/A form I suppose?
If that is the case, then I personally would just put on a RB header along with an N/A exhaust gasket.

z-beater

Walbro is a good pump. I have seen them do pretty amazing things. If you do get one make sure that it is an actual walbro pump, there are a lot of knockoffs. I personally am using the Aeromotive A1000. Great pump but it is very loud. If you are not pushing over 300-325whp I would run the walbro.


The modification to the Stock pedal is VERY easy. I am not sure if you could swap in a FD pedal. I will see if I can snap you a picture. You are more than welcome to examine it next time that I see you. I know how you like doing that.

IIRC the stock SE cable goes to the back of the UIM and pulls towards the driver. On the rew(and I also believe the TII) the cable pulls towards the passenger. The cable on the SE is too short.

Actually there is no welding needed. When I pull mine back apart I intend on beefing the mount up a little. I will see if I can get you a picture as well.

You would mount the motor the exact same way as I listed above. You will have to overcome the tranny issue. If you get this motor make sure that you get his header, ignition and ECU as well. Putting the motor in is not the hard part, getting it to run is. Personally I would not bother with a NA rew setup. Just build a "generic" 13b motor.

z-beater

I am going to attach all my pictures this way. That way we won't loose them in the future. Photobucket pictures will sometimes get lost over time.

Jeff, take a look at how the FD cable tucks nicely under the manifold. If you ever take a look at the FD, in it's natural state, you will see that the cable actually wraps around the manifold. When it is in the FB you can do this as well, but it will sit more over the center of the monifold since the hole in the firewall is closer to the wheel.

The FD cable also comes with a nice mounting bracket that I tied onto the firewall. That way I know the cable is not moving anywhere.

Sorry about the dirty engine bay. I took those pictures right after it came out of storage.

I will take pictures of the trans mount later.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I'm not seeking any more than 300 rwhp (a guy with a similar setup got that on a wheel dyno). I bought what looks like a walbro from eBay so I'll use it. The auction said it was a walbro.

I didn't know the FD had the cable pull from the passenger side like the T2. Ok, that's cool because the JC Cosmo pulls from the driver's side. I was able to get away with the GLC's cable; it was just barely long enough to work, and it works ok with Hitachi (13B) carbs with a little threaded extension due to being about an inch too long. I believe a stock 12A cable should be close enough to get me started. Then I can adjust it in or out as needed or add an extension to the bracket kinda like you did.

If I can't use the FD pedal I might list it for sale. Or maybe keep it for a rotary go-cart or something.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for posting those pictures. I see what you're talking about. The JC TB is a lot more friendly to left hand drive cars it looks like.

z-beater

Ok, here are a few of the trans mount. I do not have one that is fully assembled but this should illustrate the concept.

Notice the two mounts. You place the .5" spacer between the two.

It is VERY important that you make the spacer .5". Any deviation from this will cause excessive wear on the u-joints.

I have also posted Blake's rendition of his motor mount. He posted it before he passed away.

z-beater

Now for the gas pedal:

The stock pedal just has a opening for the throttle cable. As mentioned you need to extend the pedal. I extended it around 3/4 of an inch. Before you weld it onto the pedal you will need to cut a slit into the body. This will allow for the cable to slip into the "housing". Once this is done just weld the extension onto the throttle.

Note: I must have knocked it when I was taking the picture because it looks like it was not clicked into place. If you use a material that is threaded on the inside the FD cable will actually clip in.

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

^^a cable stop could also be used as well. I've used them for 2 cars so far. I just cut the end off the stock cable, slide the cable stop on and tighten it to where I need it to be and then I cut off the rest that's sticking past it. Just another alternative.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Ah, I see. You welded a little dude on the pedal to take up the excess slack in the cable. That's cool. I might need to come up with a way to increase the length of my cable about the same amount. About an inch I think. Maybe it was 20mm.

As for the T2 tranny in a 1st gen, it looks like you added a spacer on each side stud as well as on the tranny mount itself. I'll be helping PercentSevenC with a T2 install in his FB eventually, and this is all very important info for us to learn.

I have some 1/4" aluminum plate to use as a doubled up 1/2" spacer. Did you ever use an angle finder to compare the tilt of a stock 12A to your 13B? I believe the white REPU was 6° but haven't checked a 1st gen yet. The REPUs might have a different tilt by as much as 1 degree, plus I know the motor mounts have sagged in it over time.

Percent and I have 13Bs in our cars; mine with an RB front mount bar and his with a GSL-SE crossmember and stock 12A mount bar. Both trannies have healthy rear mounts and the pinion angle of the driveshafts looks good. I can borrow an angle finder and test my car as soon as I take care of the bad clutch hydraulics.

As for the driveshaft, we have access to a T2 unit and his stock one with the large flange from mid '83 and the stupid stamped in u-joints. Would you say it's worth the money to keep using his rear u-joints if they are healthy, and have the front T2 yoke installed? It ought to be cheaper than having them fab up a new one with new joints, steel tube and all that.

One last thing. You never mentioned (or I might have missed it) whether you used a stock T2 pressure plate and clutch disc? Or were they 'street strip' or 'heavy duty' in any way? I'm guessing Percent could get away with stock T2 parts because they should be more than enough in a 1st gen chassis. No need to constantly beat up your left leg with an ACT pressure plate when a stock quality unit like Exedy will do the job and have more than enough grip in a light 1st gen chassis. Plus the possibility of catastrophic rear end failure is a lot less likely if there is some give in the clutch. Thanks.

z-beater

2Lucky, if you don't have access to a welder that would be a good idea.

No side spacers for me. That was one that Blake shared with me. I installed a .5" spacer between the trans mounts. The cardboard picture illustrates it the best.

Yes, .5" will get you to where you need to be.

Out the door I paid 300 fully balanced w/ new u-joints. I have seen some get the same work done for around 250. Personally I don't like building something with old re-used parts. If you feel safe doing so, go for it.

I don't know the specifics of his build. I am running a ACT 6-puck with a HD pressure plate. I would reccomend a street strip clutch. ACT sells some great stuff. Honestly, I don't notice my 6 puck as much as I expected.

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

It has been a minute since i have done the Turbo II swap into my SA and now im looking and seeking answers to my questions. I have everything ready to throw into my car...I having trouble remembering how to shorten the the shifter so it will fit into the stock shifter location of my car...Got pics and a clear cut description of how to do this again, to refresh my memory...thanks teddy

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

Great Info Dave.

I agree fully with the replacable u joints on the driveshaft.

z-beater

Teddy, there are a few ways this can be accomplished. I sifted through all my pictures but could not find the ones that I took. I did save a few from an old thread though. Here they are.

In summary:

Remove FB change control case, swap over to the TII transmission. This moves the shifter to the stock FB position. The pic below shows the shorter FB case compared to the TII unit.

Look at picture #1

This requires removal of the TII extension housing, and shortening of the change lever by 30mm. The control rod end that accepts the bottom of the shifter is pinned to this change lever. When shortening the change lever by 30mm, the hole for the roll pin must of course be moved by 30mm as well. The angular position of this hole is critical for the shifter mechanism to operate properly. Use caution, drill the hole forward first, and then shorten the rod. The tube that the rod rides in must also be shortened. I was able to remove the rubber end boot from one of the spare tubes, and swap it over to the shortened unit.

Look at picture #2 & 3

Modify the tranny mount to suit. There's many ways to do this. I ended up using the stock FB mount, and welded ears on it to mate to the TII transmission. Be sure to measure the offset from output shaft centerline to ensure the installed angle of the transmission is correct. The FB mount sits a bit further forward on the tranny than the TII unit, so you'll need to take some measurements and build offset in compensate. Some others seem to have avoided this issue, but perhaps there are different TII tranny configurations? I'm running a jspec S5 unit.

Look at picture #4 & 5


Here are some additional links as well:

https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/tii-tranny-fb-i-know-again-383708/
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/who-has-put-t2-trans-fb-51160/
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/turbo-ii-engine-81-lining-up-shifter-409729/
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/my-s4-transmission-n-mounted-fb-513634/
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/oil-pan-front-cover-prep-driveshaft-329164/

This swap was very similar to mine. The only difference is that I used the S5 upper mount vs. the stock upper mount.

If you have questions just ask.

Jay7 Nyc

iTrader: (3)

Nice write up, i'm about to build a 83GSL with REW and 8.8. I'll be contacting you soon...

Dysfnctnl85

iTrader: (11)

I found this thread in searching for transmission mounts. I've lost mine(TII)! I had previously used my 85 GS stock transmission mount with a spacer.

Is there an aftermarket solution to my problem, can I make my own with off-the-shelf parts, or do you guys have any other suggestions?

hockeynightincanada

its currently my mission for my 1983 gsl se to have a 13b rew in it... this thread has been very uplifting lol

z-beater

Dys: Take a look at the tranny description above. That is the easiest and cheapest way. There are a thousand ways to build the mount. I hope your car is coming along well.

Hockey: when you have questions feel free to post them here.

hockeynightincanada

1st question.... where should i get the motor from? jdm imports.. they have them advertised for 1300-or 1700 i forget, but where is the best place for my money. i have time to save up and i have the rest of my life with this car.