13B-RE swap into 1st Gen?
06-27-07, 12:46 PM
#1
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13B-RE swap into 1st Gen?
Hey guys,
Well i'm new to the rx scene but I love my 1st gen! I can get a 13B-RE motor for a good deal and was just wondering if any of you rx guru's could lend me some of your expert advice on doing a swap like this.
Also if it makes it easier, I can get my hands on a FC front subframe and could swap that in first if it will make mounting the RE easier. I would obviously like to do that anyways just for the rack and pinion hehe.
But any advice and info is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!!
Cheers,
Victor
Well i'm new to the rx scene but I love my 1st gen! I can get a 13B-RE motor for a good deal and was just wondering if any of you rx guru's could lend me some of your expert advice on doing a swap like this.
Also if it makes it easier, I can get my hands on a FC front subframe and could swap that in first if it will make mounting the RE easier. I would obviously like to do that anyways just for the rack and pinion hehe.
But any advice and info is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!!
Cheers,
Victor
06-27-07, 02:47 PM
#5
Though there is much information on 2nd gen T2 and 3rd gen REW swaps, there isn't alot of info on the Cosmo engines.
However, the swap is basically the same. I am sure there may be minor differences but that is common with any swap variation. Regardless of what engine you use, I would recomend a T2 tranny. It is the cheapest, easiest to bolt up and equally strong.
Good luck.
However, the swap is basically the same. I am sure there may be minor differences but that is common with any swap variation. Regardless of what engine you use, I would recomend a T2 tranny. It is the cheapest, easiest to bolt up and equally strong.
Good luck.
06-27-07, 04:26 PM
#6
Hmm... yeah there's not alot of info on Cosmo engines, but IIRC it's closer to a 13b-REW swap than a TII 13b swap.
Which means it's not easy, or at least, not as easy as the TII swap.
There's going to be some metal fabrication involved no matter which way you slice it.
For any FI/turbo install you'll need to re-do your fuel system. So you'll have to drop the tank and figure out how to install a pump that will supply you with enough fuel. Switching to an in-tank pump is probably best, and trochoid has a thread around here somewhere detailing how to mod the gas tank for better FI performance and less fuel starvation.
So now that we've put aside fuel, the main stuff left is to figure out how to mount the engine (that's where the front cover comes in. FCs have their mounts in the middle, and I think FDs and Cosmos have their mounts closer to the rear). I'd bolt it to the transmission, supporting it on a jack, then figure out how to mount it to the crosmember from where it sits.
So that gets fuel and physical mounting, now you need to wire it up. Assuming you have all the "Stock" stuff that comes with a cosmo engine, you'll have to find a wiring diagram for the cosmo and a wiring diagram for the car you're dropping it into, then find out how to make the two work together. Patience and a soldering iron are required. FB wiring diagrams can be found at the link in trochoid's signature that points to a website full of manuals. That should get you started at least, I have no clue where to find the Cosmo wiring.
If you're running an FB front cover, you can either run a TII-style CAS (I don't know what the 13b-RE CAS looks like) or you can use an FB distributor for your timing. With a the stock cosmo computer, you'll need to give it CAS input for it to know what's going on...
and that's all that I know. 13b-RE engines and swaps aren't my specialty, but that's the main info I've gained from looking around.
Just basically approach it one problem at a time:
- How do I physically mount the damn thing in there?
- To bolt it to the trans, will the trans input shaft and clutch fork work with the clutch that comes on this engine?
- Now that it's mounted, it needs fuel, how to get it there?
- Okay it's got fuel, it needs spark, which means it needs electrical, how do I tackle that?
- It's got fuel and spark, and it's mounted, but is it hooked to a cooling system? radiator? oil cooler?
- Umm.. I could start it, but the throttle isn't hooked up, how do I manage that?
and go from there
It'll be a fun swap, but a lot of work.
Jon
Which means it's not easy, or at least, not as easy as the TII swap.
There's going to be some metal fabrication involved no matter which way you slice it.
For any FI/turbo install you'll need to re-do your fuel system. So you'll have to drop the tank and figure out how to install a pump that will supply you with enough fuel. Switching to an in-tank pump is probably best, and trochoid has a thread around here somewhere detailing how to mod the gas tank for better FI performance and less fuel starvation.
So now that we've put aside fuel, the main stuff left is to figure out how to mount the engine (that's where the front cover comes in. FCs have their mounts in the middle, and I think FDs and Cosmos have their mounts closer to the rear). I'd bolt it to the transmission, supporting it on a jack, then figure out how to mount it to the crosmember from where it sits.
So that gets fuel and physical mounting, now you need to wire it up. Assuming you have all the "Stock" stuff that comes with a cosmo engine, you'll have to find a wiring diagram for the cosmo and a wiring diagram for the car you're dropping it into, then find out how to make the two work together. Patience and a soldering iron are required. FB wiring diagrams can be found at the link in trochoid's signature that points to a website full of manuals. That should get you started at least, I have no clue where to find the Cosmo wiring.
If you're running an FB front cover, you can either run a TII-style CAS (I don't know what the 13b-RE CAS looks like) or you can use an FB distributor for your timing. With a the stock cosmo computer, you'll need to give it CAS input for it to know what's going on...
and that's all that I know. 13b-RE engines and swaps aren't my specialty, but that's the main info I've gained from looking around.
Just basically approach it one problem at a time:
- How do I physically mount the damn thing in there?
- To bolt it to the trans, will the trans input shaft and clutch fork work with the clutch that comes on this engine?
- Now that it's mounted, it needs fuel, how to get it there?
- Okay it's got fuel, it needs spark, which means it needs electrical, how do I tackle that?
- It's got fuel and spark, and it's mounted, but is it hooked to a cooling system? radiator? oil cooler?
- Umm.. I could start it, but the throttle isn't hooked up, how do I manage that?
and go from there
It'll be a fun swap, but a lot of work.
Jon
06-27-07, 04:27 PM
#7
I noticed you're in Toronto....
Pop your head in the Canadian section and look for R.P.M. ... Joe from RPM Motorsports is an awesome guy, and could probably provide you with some help on that. Heck, he might even be able to do it for ya, for a price of course.
Jon
Pop your head in the Canadian section and look for R.P.M. ... Joe from RPM Motorsports is an awesome guy, and could probably provide you with some help on that. Heck, he might even be able to do it for ya, for a price of course.
Jon
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06-27-07, 06:01 PM
#8
Ah, the half-breed, cross-breed Cosmo that got lost and was never imported to the States. In my sig line you'll find the FSMs, with wiring diagrams for everything except the Cosmo. I don't know if there is an English version of it. If there is, it might be found on the Australian or European forums, (Ausrotary.com). I've never run across one.
The swap has been done, more common in the 2nd gen forum, you could do a search there for wiring, ignition, etc.. It's going to be different in an FB because it will need to be front mounted, using a GSL-SE front cover and oil pan. In the long run, it might be simpler to go with a standalone ecu. That will save much of the wiring needed and allow for better tuning and will have more adaptability for upgrades.
Welcome to the forum and the Dark Darkside, you're jumping in with both feet.\
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The swap has been done, more common in the 2nd gen forum, you could do a search there for wiring, ignition, etc.. It's going to be different in an FB because it will need to be front mounted, using a GSL-SE front cover and oil pan. In the long run, it might be simpler to go with a standalone ecu. That will save much of the wiring needed and allow for better tuning and will have more adaptability for upgrades.
Welcome to the forum and the Dark Darkside, you're jumping in with both feet.\
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06-27-07, 08:57 PM
#9
Once you put on an 84/85 FB Front Cover, and a GSL-SE Oil pan - the engine bolts in perfectly into an FB with a GSL-SE crossmember, or modifed 12A Crossmember.
Seriously - this is the easiest part of the swap.
And as Trochoid said - use an aftermarket ECU.
Seriously - this is the easiest part of the swap.
And as Trochoid said - use an aftermarket ECU.
06-27-07, 09:25 PM
#10
I'm working on mine right now -- 2 pieces of advice:
1. Get all the ancillary stuff you can with the engine -- the tranny, ecu, twin turbos, etc. Even if you don't plan on using that stuff, you can sell it for good money on eBay. I made half as much off that stuff as the engine cost me in the first place.
2. Drain ALL the coolant out of the engine while it's waiting to be installed (the install will probably take longer than you think). If it sits for too long, the coolant and water may separate and you could have corrosion issues like I did, which forced me to rebuild an engine I didn't plan to.
1. Get all the ancillary stuff you can with the engine -- the tranny, ecu, twin turbos, etc. Even if you don't plan on using that stuff, you can sell it for good money on eBay. I made half as much off that stuff as the engine cost me in the first place.
2. Drain ALL the coolant out of the engine while it's waiting to be installed (the install will probably take longer than you think). If it sits for too long, the coolant and water may separate and you could have corrosion issues like I did, which forced me to rebuild an engine I didn't plan to.
