666cody666

alright i just found out that they had a 13B-RE and i wouldlike to know if they are different and if the wiring harnsses are the same?

steve84GS TII

13B RE is just a 13B Rotary Engine...theres nothing specified there,could be anything from an SE to a S5.

13B-REW denotes a twin turbo 13B....either FD or Jspec Cosmo.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Cosmo 2 rotor is known as the 13B-RE. FD is REW

Both had twin turbos.

666cody666

cool thanks

PaulFitzwarryne

I agree, REW stood for twin turbo. RE stood for rotary engine and appeared on the badges of early rotary cars such as the RX-2. It was sometimes added to the 13B engine designation when it came out in the RX-4. The unoffical designation of the gen 2 was TII or 13BT. Some people use 13BTT rather than 13B REW.

The answer to the second question is no.

Blake

That is not correct. The 13B-RE is specific to the Japanese Eunos Cosmo; the 2-rotor counterpart to the 20B. It has exceptionally large intake ports and exceptionally small twin turbos. It is most similar to a 2nd gen turbo engine, however, with a CAS and center engine mounts.

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

its all in teh victoria magazine. lol mmmm pg 8


well some of it is atleast for the newbs. (me)@(me)

PaulFitzwarryne

We differ on this point. My first reference to a 13B RE is from 1974 which has this designation as the engine for the LA 23S when it replaced the LA 22S.

PaulFitzwarryne

I have just dug deeper into my references! The engine for the RX-9, the export version of the LA 43S, was called a 13B RE in the publicity material issued in English. I will have to read the Japanese workshop manual to see what it says, Sometimes the Mazda marketing and engineering used different designations.

Another problem is that in North America people used a range of unofficial designations as a form of shorthand.

It is interesting the early 13B RE engined cars carried badges stating 'RE 13', rather than the other way round.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Paul, if you can read the FSM in Japanese, you moved up 2 more notches in my respect for your knowledge and information sharing.

REVHED

The JC Cosmo 13B has 13B-RE stamped in big lettering on the intake manifold so that is what it's generally refered to as.

Rotary7s

13bre (Cosmo)


13brew (FD)

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

RE has larger intakes with slightly more agressive timing.

aren't the exhausts on the RE smaller than the REW though?

another question i've always had has to do with the front covers. do the REW and RE share the same front cover bolt pattern?

RE Drifter

iTrader: (5)

I got this video from Bestmotoring that says that the REW was made to be lightweight and the modle FD that they put it in was the lightest. Type R, I think

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

http://www.answers.com/topic/mazda-wankel-engine


! I Found the anwsers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blake

I think you are confusing an abbreviation for a designation. RE is shorthand for Rotary Engine. They've been using that abbreviation since the beginning. So, instead of saying 13B Rotary Engine, they shorten it to 13B RE...or RE 13, or whatever. It's like how they refer to front engine rear wheel drive cars as "FR". There was only one "13B-RE" engine that I am aware of and that was the Cosmo 2-rotor. Regardless, even if they only recycled the designation, in practical use it ONLY applies to the Cosmo 2-rotor.

PaulFitzwarryne

The information in the reference given by NicholasP, which I was aware of, is the same as my references. It is fairly accurate with only minor errors due to different source documents

QUOTE "13B REW
A twin-turbocharged version of the 13B, the 13B-REW, became famous for its high output and low weight. The turbos were arranged sequentially using Hitachi HT-12 turbos, with the primary providing boost until 4,500 RPM, and the secondary coming online afterwards. Output eventually reached, and may have exceeded, Japan's "maximum" of 280 hp (208 kW) for the final upgrade or better known "series-8" version.

Applications:

1990-1995 Eunos Cosmo, 235 hp (176 kW)
1992-1995 Mazda RX-7, 255 hp (190 kW)
1996-1998 Mazda RX-7, 265 hp (197 kW)
1999-2002 Mazda RX-7, 280 hp (208 kW) " QUOTE

The engine came out in 1990 as the 13B-REW.

As I said earlier, in North America there were some unofficial shorthands. The later engine was the first available in the US as REW, but when second hand first series Cosmo engines were imported they were refered to as RE to distinguish them as the manifold stamping was 13B RE to save space. They were cheaper than the RX-7 versions if you wanted to upgrade your gen 1 or 2 car.

The answer to the original question should have been the RX-7 REW were more powerful versions of the Cosmo REW, some of the improvements have been described in following threads. It was a pity the thread got sidetracked into an argument as to what RE meant.

It is good to see Pineapple Racing giving their expertise.

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

just call me nick

Blake

That reference is wrong, plain and simple. The Cosmo did not get the 13B-REW; that engine was specific to the FD, starting in 1992. The Cosmo twin turbo engine was designated as the 13B-RE and it has SIGNIFICANT differences to the FD's 13B-REW. If you'd ever seen them side by side, you would understand immediately. Front, intermediate and rear side housings; oil pan; engine mounts; front cover; intake manifolds; and turbos are all very different. The 13B-RE was an evolution of the FC's 13B-T and the 13B-REW was an evolution of the 13B-RE. Also, the -RE was designed for a luxury car, so the emphasis was on low-end torque, whereas the -REW was designed specifically for a light, high-revving sports car with the emphasis on horsepower.

PaulFitzwarryne

Thanks for a very informative response, which also covered another question raised in this thread. I was aware that the 13B progressively improved but unlike you I have not had the opportunity to frequently see them stripped down side by side. Does this mean for two years that Mazda produced two 13BTT engines with different housings, front cover and pan?

I agree 13B-RE is now the common reference for the Cosmo engine and that was the original question of the thread, while 13B RE was sometimes used for the earlier engines. It's relatively unimportant as to the derivation of REW as a designation, my original understanding being that the W stood for 'double turbo' and applied to all engines with them.

Blake

BTW, I will admit there is a remote possibility that I am wrong about the official designation, but the real physical differences between the engines is undisputable. The engines are so vastly different that I simply cannot imagine them not having completely seperate designations, but anything is possible. For that reason, I sent an email to "Koby" Kobayakawa, who was in charge of FD development at the time, to see what he recalls on the matter. Unfortunately, the email bounced back, as he must have changed emails in the last couple years, since he gave me his card. I have asked a mutual friend for his new email address, so perhaps we can still find out. Anyway, I do not trust most references because the people who write them are human and can get confused even with the best of intensions.

REVHED

Some Jap 13B 6-port engines had 13B-RE EGI on the intake. So the designation was used earlier.

One interesting thing to note, DMRH who's knowledge on Cosmo's is second to none refers to the engine as 13B-REW on his website.

Blake

Yes, they produced two distinct twin-turbo engines for the two distinct applications (luxury car and sports car). The three most obvious external differences are the front covers (the -RE used a 2nd gen CAS; not the -REW crank trigger wheel), the enormous intake ports and the odd off-center exhaust port sleeves. If you look underneath, the -REW has a shallow oil pan with engine mounts through the rear plate, whereas the -RE as a deep oil pan offset to the rear and no engine mount holes through it at all. The -RE looks more like a 2nd gen engine than an -REW, other than the intake ports.

Blake

I think this falls into the category of "does RX stands for Rotary Experimental or Rotary Export?" First...who cares?!, second, people will believe what they want to believe based on what they heard first, and third, no matter what you believe, it won't have any practical application. This is Trivial Pursuits, Rotary Edition. Let's also remember Mazda was remarkably inconsistent with designations in general. Anything is possible. 13G anyone?

PaulFitzwarryne

Yes. Could Pineapple Racing possibly fit into my engine bay please?