hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

Hey guys, it might sound stupid, but i have to ask:

What i need to do if i`ll want to use mine 13B in friends first gen, originally equipped with 12A ? I can give him my complete 13B NA motor with TII flywheel, clutch and tranny, even TII diff if necessary...
And of course header, engine harness, igniters, ECU...just about whatever he will need to use from my car...

Is it possible ? Does it fit ? (i`m not worried about fitting ECU and harness, thats the last thing which i`m worried about)

thanks

gamble302

yes it will fit. gsl-se's here in the states came equipped with 13bs in 84-85. either you can use an se front cover or cross member or get some adapter part from mazdatrix. the 13b is only like 2 cm longer i believe. as far as the tranny goes i think something about the starter gives you problems with fitment but you can switch that out if i recall. dont know the specefics of it im just regurgitating what i can remember to help someone out whos actually up at the same time as me. i guess i need some buddies on the other side of the planet

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

why would i need do anything with starter if i`ll provide him engine with tranny and starter ? (everything whats right now in my car..)
what about engine mounts ?

Felix Wankel

To use your 6 port 13B, he will need a 12A front cover and mount brace (slotted a lil to compensate for a longer 13B), and to use the tranny you will have to fab a mount. Use the NA wiring harness, coils, and ECU. Then you need to redo the fuel system with a high pressure fuel pump, and better feed/return lines.

Its a pain in the ***, but ~60 more hp is worth it

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

that guy has couple 12A's and i could provide him anything from my car, we need to do it easiest way with biggest gain, just swapping whole engine with tranny and stuff will be best for us...which mounts would work ok and which one we will need to get fabricated ?
can (or should) we use TII diff and driveshaft ?

Felix Wankel

TII diff and driveshaft won't fit. You'll need to have the front half of the TII driveshaft cut and welded to the rear half of the first gen driveshaft, and also have it shortened (I think its an inch shorter), due to the TII trans being longer.

The only mount you should have to fab is the trans mount, as it is different between FB and FC. Just swap the 13B front engine cover out for the 12A one. It is pretty evident when you compare the two engines what needs to be swapped.

Felix Wankel

Oh yeah, you will also need to track down a GSL-SE oil pan, since the FC oil pan has a motor mount bolt hole in it.

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

no chance to get GSL-SE pan here, but what about engine mounts if i`ll not be using that one ???

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

i also have complete 87 TII car, would it be better to drop 13BT in ? guess ti should be about same effort....

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

can we somehow avoid welding that driveshaft ? how hard it would be to weld it ? would it hold good ??

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

bump

peejay

Sure you can avoid it... just put a regular N/A flywheel on it and use the stock 12A trans. The 12A trans is pretty much the same as the N/A trans going all the way up to '92, except for minor detail changes (like there's a vibraton damper on the FC output shaft... big woop) and shifter position.

You don't want to modify a driveshaft yourself. They have to be precision welded in a jig to get them totally straight and the U-joints in plane with each other.

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

would 12A flywheel/clutch/tranny hold 87TII power ?

peejay

You can't use the 12A flywheel. You have to use a flywheel appropriate to the year of the engine.

I thought you said it was a N/A 13B? Is it a T2 engine with no turbo or is it a 6-port engine that has a T2 flywheel on it? Either way... don't upgrade the clutch, leave it stock so that it slips before the transmission breaks. A N/A 13B shouldn't be making enough torque to make a N/A clutch slip anyway, unless it's worn out.

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

i could use for his first gen 13B N/A 6port with NA clutch/flywheel/tranny or with TII clutch/flywheel/tranny or 13BT with TIIclutch/tranny.....
whatever will make our job easiest...

peejay

Use the N/A 6-port with the N/A flywheel and clutch FROM THE ENGINE, and use the 12A trans... it's the same as the FC N/A trans except the FC unit needs work to put in while the 12A unit is already there and in place.

Oh crap... what year 13B is it? If it's '89-91 you won't be able to easily mount it and keep the factory fuel injection... the way you put a later 13B in is to put a 1st-gen front cover (12A or 13B) on because the first-gens mount the engine using the front cover. Well the '89-up engines have electronic oil metering pumps and they won't bolt on to an early front cover, and if the computer doesn't see the OMP then it goes into limp-in mode. So in that case you'd have to ditch the fuel injection and go with a carb setup, or you'd have to make a way to mount the engine using the FC type side engine mounts, which I don't think you can do because the steering box and idler arm are in the way.

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

both TII and NA engines are 87-88

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

my NA motor has TII upgraded clutch, flywheel and its bolted to TII tranny.....

TII motor is sitting in garage, transmission in my parts car....
from other car we could dig 86 FC NA transmission with clutch and flywheel.....

peejay

um, hello? use the 13B N/A flywheel and clutch and mate it to the 12A tranny. there is NO GAIN to be had by putting in the FC N/A trans because they're the same internally! The only difference is the trans mounts and shift location... which would you rather do, a bolt-in swap or lots of time and sweat getting a different transmission to fit for no gain whatsoever?

Now the T2 trans IS lots stronger... but it requires work and a different driveshaft to fit it, and since you're just putting in an N/A engine you don't really need it. Unless you're going to be putting a race clutch and slicks on the car, which will break the N/A trans. (So use the stock clutch!)

rx7passion

my opinion on this supject is if your going to but a n/a motor keep the n/a trans too much work for a t2 swap. but if you are going to put a complete turbo motor then it is not that much work to fit a trans in, just make sure you use the same engine/year parts. if you have any specific question i can probialy help you out since i have done most of the crap of putting a 13bt and trans in a 84.

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

rx7passion

i do have all parts, now it depends how to do it as easy as possible.....it if would be possible to fit complete TII motor and tranny, guy will probably go for it, i`m offering him for same price my NA motor like TII motor...he is just worried about welding driveshaft....

simply said, its not about parts, we have choice on parts and we are not discussing it at price levels....its just about labor/fitting etc...

peejay

Depends... to have a driveshaft made locally would cost me almost $500, I can get 5 N/A transmissions for that much, so it's cheaper to break trannies than it is to put the T2 unit in.

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

ok, $500 for driveshaft is no way for us, we could use whatever we have, we can weld but i guess not that perfect to make own driveshaft.....
i will check prices here in cz, labor is cheap so i will give it try and if this would not work out, we will use that NA stuff.....

rx7passion

well i have nothing to do today so ill list all the **** you need to get the motor in your car.
1. gsl-se oil pan
2. 12a or 13b oil pick up
3. 13b front brace or slotted 12a one
4. preferable a gsl-se frontcover due to omp but 12a can be used if running premix.

to get the turbo trans in you have to either A. about 1.5" back in the shifter location for a bone stock 13bt tran to fit. or B. use a 12a shifter and extension housing and cut something like 3/4" out of the shift rod it self too much of a pita for me so little cutoff wheel action and the trans fits fine no shifter movement problems at all.

now the trans mount you have to slot it once a again to make a solid mount, and get a 38.5" driveshaft made up. i paid about 430$ for a 3" lightweight aluminum that can hold about 700-800 ft/lb of torque.

are you going to do the install yourself? getting the **** in isnt that hard at all but i think it would cost a good amount of $$ to get a shop to do it

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

considering there are no rotary shops here in cz we would do it by ourselfs

actually there is one guy who works mostly on FC's and he is not really expensive....for about 8 hours $20...

(But again....we do work fulltime like network administrators for $2/hour

but this job is waiting for us, if we will be able to get that driveshaft made, it shouldn`t run us much more than $50-100 (realistic numbers, its not about price its about IF SOMEONE WOULD DO IT)

problem is there are no GSL-SE cars or parts...only 12A or 13B FC