rotaryxperamental

I just got my car home after having it stored at a friends house (parents are tired of the four I've already got) I tried jumping it before I brought it home but couldn't get the task done.

Got it home today and tried it with a batt. charger; after about two hours figured the battery was bad so pit another in and left it on the charger for about an hour, when I tried it all I got was a loud click, like the starter was engaging but not spinning. Also I tried to pull it and nothing happened when I dumped the clutch i.e it acted like it was still in nutral.

The previous owner told me he put a new clutch in but did it carelessly, I'm wondering if he put something in backwards and that the clutch isn't disengaging correctly when the pedal is released. Could this be the problem or is it worse than I'm thinking???

Also it WAS running before the attempted clutch replacement.

Thanks
Eric

soulja77

push start... or put atf in the carb

kettlman

iTrader: (2)

first thing i would do is check the cables. make sure they are tight. if that doesn't work get a big hammer and tap the starter casing with a good whomp. then try again. if you get the click still..... repeat the hammer method. when all else fails, take the starter off and go get it checked at the autoparts store. sounds like a starter to me. good luck.

rotaryxperamental

I tried to push start when the tranny is in gear it still rolls w/o resistance.

What does the atf do????

What do I do if the cables are loose?? I've never had experence with cable clutches all I've delt with is the old ford lever style clutches.

Looking at the starter it seems kinda cramped do I need anything else, if it's the starter then I know how to check them, had plenty experence with'em.

AND what about the tranny not doing anything when the car is pushed/pulled while its in gear???

kettlman

iTrader: (2)

sorry. didn't notice the rolling when in gear. as for the cables... i was meaning the battery cables. if you just get a click it's a good indication that one of the cables is loose. as for the rolling while in gear, thats not good. could he have not put the clutch in? or put a really old one in? first i would work on getting it started. see if it's worth the time and money to check the clutch.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

do you hear the fule pump kick on when you try to start the car?

rotaryxperamental

Posts are tight, I have vice grips on both terminals, when it clicks it's a hard, loud click, not one that would coinside with loose connection.

He said that it was a new remanufactured clutch but didn't have proof, also he said it was a rushed job so he wasn't sure of the quality of the job.

And yes, I do hear the f-pump when I turn the key, I'm just trying to get it to turn over first.

a bit off topic but kettlman, how does that paint job look in person??? Not trying to talk down about ur car but the colors seem to clash(thinking of that style of paint job for my 85)

rotaryxperamental

How hard/easy are the 12a rotarys to turn by hand??? Reason I ask is because I just tried to turn it over w/a 2ft breaker bar and all I got was a cut nuckle(had the fan shroud pushed against the block).

The starter looks brand new had a loose wire to the solinoid fixed it and still nothing.

WHATS WRONG WITH THIS CAR?????? it's only got 105,000 on the odometer

kettlman

iTrader: (2)

i liked it at first. till i had a few people tell me it looks like a tweekers car. i'm plannin on changing the color real soon. goin all yellow with a red stripe.

as for the engine being able to turn by hand. fairly easy. i turn mine with a ratchet. no breaker bar. do a search on carbon locked engines and see what you find. good luck.

partsguy74

If the man can't get any gear to engage, I'd highly doubt that the ATF treatment is going to help anything. I also don't think he has a starter problem.. If it has never run since the clutch job, the previous owner probably installed it wrong. I'm guessing he bound up the clutch or pressure plate and that is preventing the engine from turning over by hand or by starter. As for putting it in gear and getting no engagement, that probably happened when the previous owner rushed the clutch job, then tried jamming the thing into gear and breaking the shift linkage.. Sounds like you need to drop the transmission and do some expoloring. Good Luck

rotaryxperamental

The tranny seems to shift fine while stationary(sticks going to fifth) so I don't think anything is broken, but if it is would the tranny out of a 80' GS fit my 85 GSL???

What would be the fix to the bound up clutch?? Could that cause the clutch to not grip the flywheel thus causing the rolling in gear that I'm dealing with???

If the tranny is broken what do I look for?? I'm not too keen on these cars, only tranny I've had apart is an NP435 out of a 72' half-ton truck.

Thanks,
Eric

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

all manual tranny pretty much work the same. turn the input shaft by hand with it in gear and see if u can hold the output shaft. do this thru all gears. if u can hold one shaft while turning the other with it in gear, the trannys fukd. i don't know how it would act if the clutch disk was put in backwards. it may have the wrong setup all together and not engaging the fw at all. maybe he didn't even tighten the pressure plate bolts. take the thing apart and look at it, let us know what u found, then we'll go from there.

31rx7

Don't pull your transmission just yet. The battery could be bad. Even if it has been charged and shows a full charge, a battery that was left to sit and become discharged may be no good and not able to generate enough cranking amps to turn the engine. You would have the symptoms you describe. Take it out and to your local parts store to have it tested.

If the battery is OK, then there is something else at work (or not as it were...).

Use process of elimination to confirm that all drivetrain components are turning (ie, not locked up).

Confirm the engine itself turns as previously suggested and is not locked up. If it is, there are other issues.

If the car rolls freely while in neutral, then the starter should turn the engine. Even if the clutch is engaged and the transmission is locked in gear, you should be able to jack up the rear wheels off the ground, and the starter (with the rear supported properly) should be strong enough to turn the engine and drivetrain. If it does, you know the starter is engaging properly and turning things.

If it doesn't, put the trans in neutral, jack up the rear, and support it with stands. You should also be able to turn the rear wheels (need two people if you have an open diff) by hand, thus turning the driveshaft and transmission. This will confirm the trans / clutch is not locked up somehow.

Next, put the car in gear, and turn the wheels by hand. They shouldn't turn (except for drivetrain slop). This confirms the trans / clutch is engaging with the flywheel and the engine.

Next with the car in gear, depress the clutch pedal and turn the wheels. If they turn freely with the driveshaft turning the trans, it confirms the clutch is engaging / disengaging.

Through all this, you've now confirmed everything is turning as (more or less) it should.

There are then a few possible problems:

- The starter is bad. Take it out and have it tested. Replace as needed.
- The battery cables are bad and not allowing enough power to get to the started and turn the engine. Replace battery cables (including ground)
- The starter is not engaging the ring gear properly. When you the starter tested, if the the solenoid is working properly the starter gear should move to engage. Make sure this is happening. The guy testing the starter should be able to tell this.
- It is possible also the starter gear is worn excessively, and is not engaging properly with the ring gear causing it to jam up. You should be able to visibly inspect the starter gear and tell. Compare it to a known good one to tell for certain.
- The ring gear on the flywheel is worn or has come loose or apart somehow. With the starter removed, you should be able to inspect the ring gear through the hole. You can also inspect it through the access cover at the top of the transmission (by the clutch slave).

You can do all of this without removing the transmission. I would be very surprised if you don't find at least the component with the problem. If you don't find it, then the trans will need to be pulled.

Good luck.

rotaryxperamental

How long would a car have to set in order for carbon lock to cause a problem, this car of mine has set for about a year, when I first tried to start it it had been abou 8 to 10 months.

31rx7

I can't say from a time perspective; I have never personally experienced carbon lock. From what I have read, it seems to occur in situations where the car is started and run for awhile but not fully warmed up before it is shut off. Then the car sits.

From your question: can you put a wrench on the lower pulley bolt and turn the engine? Take out the plugs to take compression out of the equation, and jack up the rear so the wheels are off the ground. Even if the trans is locked in gear, you still should be able to turn it.

If you can't, then either:

- The engine is locked (search on "carbon lock" for possible solutions)
- The clutch is engaged all the time AND the transmission is also locked up somehow.
- There is something preventing the flywheel from turning, possibly something jammed up in there. Take out the trans and inspect. If you do take out the trans, validate that the engine turns.

Did you check the stuff previously mentioned?

rotaryxperamental

I can't turn the engine period. plus are out and still nothing, i'll remove the tranny this Saturday, its the soonest I'll be able to get to it.

I'm in the process of chencking if it's actually carbon locked got some stuff Tuesday and have made feeble atempts of getting it into the engine, are there any easy ways to do this I never realized that the engin compartment is that tight. What's this MMO that is so popular or I should say where do I find the stuff???

I just don't believe that the engine could be bad @ only 105,085 miles or is it a possibility with a rotary??

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

Mine has over 175K on the original 12a and bumps perfect on all rotor faces. And if should still turn even if it is bad. Not turning might be carbon lock as earlier stated, however that doesn't mean it is bad, it just needs to be decarbonized. Search, its all over the place here.

rotaryxperamental

Like I've said, just started to de-carbon the engine last night.

Pulled the starter tonight and found that the clutch disk is about a half an inch from the flywheel when the pedal is released, so something is wrong, wondering if that's why the engine won't turn, that the clutch is in screwy and is bound. I'll pull it Sat. and post back with my findings.

What's the best/easiest way to remove the shielding from under the car????

kettlman

iTrader: (2)

10mm and a air ratchet.

31rx7

Make sure you soak the bolts with WD40 first. It seems half of them break anyhow when they come out.

MMO is "Marvel Mystery Oil". Most auto parts stores have it.

If the clutch was installed improperly (I wonder how - it really only goes together one way), then maybe in fact there is something jammed up preventing the engine from turning. Could be a bolt or something wedged somewhere.

Here is something easy to check, learned from the school of hard knocks: On one trans swap I did, I put the two bolts back in the access cover on the top of the trans. One bolt was too long and I didn't notice it. It was just the right length to snug down the access cover AND wedge into the flywheel ring gear, preventing the engine from turning. I went through and removed the trans again before realizing what I did.

DOH!

numan2

if the clutch disk is that far away from the flywheel it may have been put in backwards (cringe) but you might be looking at the step in the flywheel too......the disk is in a recess in the flywheel. Pretty much any misassembly in the clutch will keep it locked on.
You said the engine won't even turn and when you try to pullstart it you get nothing that's not good. As a suggestion when you get the tranny and the clutch out I'd try turning it by the flywheel not (way stronger place to turn it) in both directions and see if it moves a little bit. If the engine is carbon locked it SHOULD turn backwards a bit before you have any locking. If it doesn't turn either direction then I'd suspect it's time to rip the engine down. some of what can cause this to happen is a coolant leak into the rotor area and rust holding the rotors, lost hardware in the rotor area (I've seen this 2 times now), coolant in the oil siezing the bearings to the eccentic shaft etc. Not trying to throw you into a state of panic but these are things to consider.

Rotor13B

I've actually heard of someone doing this before, How weird is that?

rotaryxperamental

I'm pretty sure that the disk isn't touching the flywheel, I can see the edge of both faces of the disk, also I can see the face of the flywheel along with the step you're talking about.

I'm starting on it tomorrow night

rotaryxperamental

I FIXED IT!!!!! Holy ****, I'm so friggen happy, pulled the tranny today and the engine spins like a brand knew engine, Something was bound up, also the pressure plate was siezed in the open position, so I'm going tomorrow to get one from the junk yard. Finally I know my $200 didn't go to waste.

31rx7

GOOD FOR YOU! Was the clutch disc in backwards? What was preventing the engine from turning?