1st Generation Specific (1979-1985) 1979-1985 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections

12A turbo ignition help

Old 08-05-12, 01:23 PM
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Exclamation 12A turbo ignition help

i currently bought a 1960 vw with a 12a engine with a blowthrough turbo setup. my question is about the ignition wiring. the current setup is 2 msd digital plus boxs powering 3 msd blaster ss-8207 coils. What would be the correct wiring and will all the features work fine such as the 2 step??
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Old 08-05-12, 01:49 PM
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Old 08-06-12, 08:39 PM
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seriously no help????? ill post more pics maybe that will spark you guys interest!
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Old 08-06-12, 08:43 PM
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Old 08-06-12, 09:12 PM
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find a genuine 12aT boost retard dizzy ... you have a standard s2 dizzy,, set up DFI style with MSD
the MSD packs replace the igniters
one MSD pack runs two leading coils in DF.. other runs the trailing through the dizzy cap

spin the dizzy by hand and see if you have sparks
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Old 08-07-12, 08:46 AM
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thanks for the help!! im going through and redoing some wiring right now. still trying to get her to start....she would start before but only by a roll start
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Old 08-07-12, 09:47 AM
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what kind of power would you expect from this setup?
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Old 08-07-12, 09:50 AM
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in my experience, compression too low to start with the starter will roll start.
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Old 08-07-12, 09:59 AM
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ill check the compression, the engine has a fresh build on it so we'll see what kind of numbers it puts out.
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Old 08-07-12, 10:26 AM
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oh didn't know it was a fresh rebuild. when i did mine it fired right up. there still could be a problem tho. any info bout the build? could make sure ur getting fire/fuel during starting.
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Old 08-08-12, 07:55 AM
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hmm still stumped on this.....its getting fuel from the holley 650 double pumper.......spark is strong....it just wont catch. it just smokes slightly out the exhaust when turning over. any ideas?
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Old 08-08-12, 10:53 AM
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Are you using the VW starter? Those things seem to have trouble starting rotaries unless everything is close to perfect. Jeff20B had to hook one up to 24 volts to get it to start a fresh rebuild a few weeks back.
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Old 08-08-12, 11:04 AM
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Yep. It simply wouldn't start with 12 volts. Hooked up two batteries and it fired in one second.
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Old 08-08-12, 11:27 AM
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hah thats funny i was just talking to my friend wondering if it was the starter turning to slowly.
how did you got by using two batterys?
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Old 08-08-12, 12:26 PM
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The car had two batteries in it already so I got a Ford fender mounted starter solenoid from the local auto parts store, and connected the two batteries in series through it. It is rated at 12V, so hooking it this way does not make it see 24V. In other words it should last a good long while as it will not be used beyond its rated capacity.

One battery runs the car (ignition, fuel pump, lights etc) and is always at 12V regardless of the Ford solenoid's status. The other battery goes to the starter only and transitions from 12V most of the time to 24V only when the key is in "start" mode. This allows it to be charged from a 12V alternator.

The original VW solenoid activation wire is rerouted into the car, it connects to the Ford solenoid to activate it (the S terminal). The Ford solenoid has another small terminal marked "I" (means ignition - meant for old points setups be we can use it here) that connects to a simple 12V 30A automotive relay which will allow 24V to go to the VW starter solenoid. I discovered 24V to the VW solenoid is required to reliably allow it to jump out into the flywheel ring gear when the starter itself is running at 24V. Trying to leave the VW solenoid at 12V made it grind a little. It needs 24V! The starter is just way too ferocious at 24V.

I also upped the wire size feeding the starter from a measly 4 or 6 gauge to a thick 1 gauge.

For charging, you will need a battery isolator. Also at least two 5 pin 12V 30A automotive relays which together will carry a 60 amp load. Also use fuses to protect stuff.

Use pin 87A. This will let the isolator send some juice from the alternator through the relays when they're off. The relays will be switched on only when the system is at 24V. Use the original VW solenoid activation wire for this as well (or the I terminal of the Ford solenoid - make your own decision about that). Remember these relays are designed to trigger at 12V, not 24 so be careful.

If you burn you car down, I don't want to here about it.
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Old 08-08-12, 08:08 PM
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hmm il look in to that. this really is pissing me off! tonight i tried roll starting it a couple of times and still nothing at all...no pop....no nothing. is there any way to check my ignition timing to be sure it is right?? i know i am easly getting fuel if not too much...
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Old 08-09-12, 04:39 PM
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im determined to get this thing to fire, tonight im trying starting fluid and we will see what happens. ill keep this up to date
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Old 08-10-12, 06:42 PM
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well after countless hours found the timing off 180....set the timing now i can get it ALMOST to start. any other ideas guys??
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Old 08-11-12, 12:10 AM
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pour 50cc engine oil into each chamber and try again.
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Old 08-11-12, 10:53 AM
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so finally got it to crank up after adding a little atf to the picture! she ran for about 15 seconds then shut back off probably due to the plentum being off the carb and the fpr vaccum not hooked up but she did run lol
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Old 04-28-15, 09:20 PM
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I own this bug now

Well I am now the owner of this same 12 powered VW bug. It has since had an engine swap I was told but still having issues with the wiring of the 2 msd boxes. It's getting fuel but no spark. Just thought I would comment on this. Haha
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Old 05-05-15, 07:46 PM
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How loud is that thing?

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