bbeachy

My father gave me his 1980 SA about 18 months ago. I had not driven it much, until about a few weeks ago, when my Jeep Grand Cherokee daily driver took a dump.

Since I have been driving it more, I have been thinking about what to do about power, brakes, suspension and wheels.

I'm wondering which way is more powerful and reliable, 12a turbo with a Weber 51IDA, etc., or a nearly stock 13bREW.

I know the FD drivetrain will require an awful lot of modification to make it fit, but if it has both more power AND better reliability over a 12a turbo, then it would be worth the hassle to me.

The 12a turbo was never imported here because Mazda execs were too concerned about the reliability and longevity of it, compared with the NA, which already had a bad rap that they were trying to squelch.

For suspension and brake parts, I guess the Turbo II, with a GSL-SE rear end is the way to go?

I would like to go to 16X7 or 16X8 rims, with the largest brakes possible.

I would like to see somewhere around 350-400hp, so that the car is "about right" for road racing purposes.

Any suggestions?

Oh, by the way, I may be a newbie to this forum, but I have owned and fixed 5 SAs/FBs and one '87 GXL since 1993.

ChunkyMonkey

iTrader: (1)

Where in SA are you??? There's quite a few of us around here. OnlyOnThurs wants to do a 12at on his for the originality factor...He loves his 12a, lol...I have an 85GSL that's about to be bridgeported. One of the guys in our group is great with drop ins....

nick812

Gonna have to think more on this.

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

Best bet would be to go with a bone stock TII swap.

Then if you want more power from there modify it accordingly. It's easy to talk big numbers but making it come to life is expensive as hell.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Ditto. Only to be done during or after all of the suspension and brake upgrades to support the extra hp.

bbeachy

Chunky;

I live near 410 and Vance. Onlyon thurs actually stopped by my house a while back because he saw my SA.

Dan;

I know the power isn't cheap, and of course I am more interested in getting the suspension, wheels and brakes up to snuff before getting the power up so high. I'm really more interested in having the functionality of fuel injection over carburetion. I want turbocharging, because you can adjust the power to suit the track. Without traction control, or other electronic devices that ruin the sport, I can't think of a better way to ensure that I will always have exactly the right amount of power for every corner exit, and most straights.

I'm not interested in IT or any other type of true racing for this car. The plan is just for open sessions, Auto-x and car shows.

My goal is to have a well-balanced car with racing slicks installed.

The car will probably never touch public roads again after I buy a sedan or something for my wife to drive.

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

Just to give you a price tag to compare your project to... My widebody project will have about 30, 000 Canadian dollars into it before it gets on the road. That is with the supporting modifications I feel are needed for a reliable 400-450 rwhp setup.

As long as you have a daily driver car, lots of patience, the required knowledge, room to work on the car, and a understanding wife then go all out.

bbeachy

Well, it's HER car, actually. And she wants me to send it to Chip Foose!

MY toy is a 300zx Twin Turbo, that I converted from na. It's a slicktop, so it's rare and lighter and stiffer than the stock TT.

We have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and are looking at possibly getting a used A4 or something for her, so we can get started on the Mazda.

It's going to take a long, long time, but I trying to plan it out starting with engine choices. I like how you modded your suspension; did it require any cutting or welding?

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

No my suspension did not require any cutting or welding.

In all honesty though if I was to do it again I would go with the GC coilover setup (requires welding).

I replaced all the front end suspension/steering wear components, Pitman arm, idler arm, inner and outer tie rods. I went with new control arms, respeed spherical control arm bushings, respeed spherical tension rod bushings, Racing beat front sway bar, Respeed camber plates, im currently using racing beat springs and tokico blue struts, CP racing 4 point strut tower bar. Then I have the Respeed big brake kit, TII powerslot rotors, 4 piston calipers, Earls SS brake lines, Hawk HPS brake pads. Thats just the front, you can see why it got so expensive...

ChunkyMonkey

iTrader: (1)

bbeachy, if you need any help locally, let us know. I'll shoot you my number in a PM. Gotta meet up sometime!

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

What's up guys! I too am local. I have been into rotaries for about 10 years. I don't know it all, but fairly knowledgable on turbo setups. I have built one and helped build 2 others. Anyway, if ya need any help feel free to PM me.

*****

ChunkyMonkey

iTrader: (1)

I LOVE YOU! ! ! ! ! lol....PM sent with my number!

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

If it's basically going to be a track car, I would go all out with stiripped interior, full cage, coilover suspension, Ford 8.8 or 9" rear end, Turbo II transmission, Peripheral Port 12A with a Garrett T-78 turbo and big front mount intercooler. That would be the way I would go anyway LOL

Modified85

I think if you are going to get into such modifications and you got the money you should go all the way and get the 13brew. A little more difficult but more unique and nice big smooth power. Here is a picture of my 13brew set up.

bbeachy

Sweet!!

bbeachy

How did you do it? Did you buy a wrecked FD? I was thinking that that would be the most economical way to get the project started.

For the FC coilover suspension, why do you need to cut and weld, if it is not needed for stock FC suspension? Also, what parts should I get from an FC to convert the suspension over to FC coilovers? Guess I will have to start looking for a turbo II...

ChunkyMonkey

iTrader: (1)

Hey BBeachy, here was his write up on it:
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/13brew-turbo-project-complete-almost-557353/

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

Like I said previously I don't see why you would choose a 13b-rew swap over a TII swap. Both have potential for the same kind of horsepower and alot of the TII parts are cheaper (rotor housings come to mind).

Do a bit more research and find out what you will have in store for a TII swap and the same for a REW swap and make a decision. It would also be smart to write out a list off all the components you will need so you can visually see how much it's going to take.

bbeachy

I am leaning toward the FD motor because I believe it has a more advanced engine management system.

If money were no object, I suppose I would rather have a Renesis and six-speed tranny. What I want is to keep maintanence to the lowest feasible point, while returning good performance and reliability. Ultimate power is not my goal by any means. There really is no point to having a 1000hp car for road racing.

I know the TII motor would cost less, but how do the electronics stack up?

Granted, neither engine could ever go 130k mi+, like my 300ZX twin turbo motor has, with mods, or the 300k mi+ that the non-turbo 12a or 13b can do without mods.

bbeachy

Does anybody have these on an SA or FB?

http://splparts.com/Parts/FC3S/Suspension/default.asp

My friend Kuah owns SPL parts. He mostly caters to owners of 300zx TTs and 350Zs, but has recently started carrying parts for other cars.

ChunkyMonkey

iTrader: (1)

do they make those for the FB?
I wouldn't mind a set while I'm doing this makeover to my car.

perfect_circle

if your going to be making 400 hp the stock enging management makes no difference, your going to be using a standalone either way. so you will have the same control as far as reliability goes. and as stated above the TII will be cheaper. i vote TII.

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, standalone is the only way to go when your building a setup like this.

mortenf

In my opinion, the difference in price reflects the different pros and cons of the three engines.

The 12A can easily make 400 BHP, even 600 is obtainable, but its really not reliable then.. Going past 350 on a 12A, usually means dowelling and studs. It is however the cheapest of the three. Oh, and i am talking about the 12A Turbo here.. It has a whole different character than the bigger 13B, lighter and more rev happy, but it lacks the extra tourqe the two others have. Aftermarket parts can be a bitch, but hey, parts can be adapted/made to fit.

The 13B, from an S4 or S5, also known as the TII, is a more common swap, parts are numerous, and the aftermarket is huge when it comes too parts like exhaust, turbos etc. It does however have the weaker 2mm seal, and is generally less reliable than a stock 12A. It can easily be fitted to a 1.gen, and if you do want a 2.gen front suspension pack, why not?

The 13B-REW.. Basically a upgraded version of the TII, better in many areas, for example ports and lubrication. Its more expencive, but also comes with the best potential for performance upgrades and it will be the most reliable. Fitting it to the 1.gen will be harder than the two others due to its mounts. Original gearbox is harder to fit to a 1.gen

As stated before, 400 BHP usually means aftermarket ECU, so the original electronics is irelevant in my opinion, its basically the good old dilemma of picking two out of three.

CHEAP - FAST - RELIABLE

Modified85

I agree with mortenf. He pretty much just summed it up. Either way a turbo 13b in a 1st is a lot of fun.