Buying first RX-7 and need collected wisdom!
11-18-12, 05:26 PM
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Buying first RX-7 and need collected wisdom!
Hi All,
I'm just getting started on the quest to own, versus borrowing and driving friend's cars, my first RX-7. I currently own a '95 Miata and have owned various MGB's and TR6's over the years.
While I know a fair amount about those cars, I know very little about RX-7's and would really like some good advice...based on the following background please.
I am not a mechanic...don't have the gift...can turn a wrench, but only under supervision.
I am pretty much set on either an SA or FB, with a preference for a 84/85 GSL-SE. I have located and will be looking at the following this Tuesday (11/20/12) afternoon.
1984 GSL-SE, showing 85K miles, purported to be "nice".
Known issues are that the A/C and Radio don't work. Also has a dent/scrape next to passenger door handle and same (?) type issue on top of rear deck above fuel door.
Otherwise, it looks (only from photots) like the paint (silver) has faded, the interior (red leather) looks okay. It doesn't seem too bad but the asking (4.5K) may be a bit high on inspection. (I live outside the Atlanta, Georgia area)
I've checked the 1st Gen FAQ's for a buying guide, but didn't see one like those listed in the 2nd and 3rd Gen FAQ's.
I know the RX-7 changed over the generations, so what should I be looking for that is specific to the 1st Generation?
What are the common areas of concern for the GSL-SE specifically?
I'm really concerned with mechanical and rust issues...cosmetic is just that.
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge to a newbie!
Ted
I'm just getting started on the quest to own, versus borrowing and driving friend's cars, my first RX-7. I currently own a '95 Miata and have owned various MGB's and TR6's over the years.
While I know a fair amount about those cars, I know very little about RX-7's and would really like some good advice...based on the following background please.
I am not a mechanic...don't have the gift...can turn a wrench, but only under supervision.
I am pretty much set on either an SA or FB, with a preference for a 84/85 GSL-SE. I have located and will be looking at the following this Tuesday (11/20/12) afternoon.
1984 GSL-SE, showing 85K miles, purported to be "nice".
Known issues are that the A/C and Radio don't work. Also has a dent/scrape next to passenger door handle and same (?) type issue on top of rear deck above fuel door.
Otherwise, it looks (only from photots) like the paint (silver) has faded, the interior (red leather) looks okay. It doesn't seem too bad but the asking (4.5K) may be a bit high on inspection. (I live outside the Atlanta, Georgia area)
I've checked the 1st Gen FAQ's for a buying guide, but didn't see one like those listed in the 2nd and 3rd Gen FAQ's.
I know the RX-7 changed over the generations, so what should I be looking for that is specific to the 1st Generation?
What are the common areas of concern for the GSL-SE specifically?
I'm really concerned with mechanical and rust issues...cosmetic is just that.
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge to a newbie!
Ted
11-18-12, 08:05 PM
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Don't Cross The Streams..
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4.5k? hmm nope. i wouldnt. my buddy is selling his restored gsl se for 4k and its immaculate. i would wait and find the right one, and pounce on it. granted we have no other info to go on besides what you posted about it but from price alone i wouldn't buy it. but that might jsut be me. you check the 1st gen for sale section?
11-18-12, 08:32 PM
#5
acdelco d1906 Nkg 49034
rear wheel wells are prone to rusting on these cars. everything else body wise is rock solid baring no accidents, flooding, fires....
if I were you, I'd offer the seller $20 to remove the rear storage bins and take a look with a flash light. We're talking about 4 philips head screws.
and go over the body with a magnet, cover it with a rag to prevent scratches.
if I were you, I'd offer the seller $20 to remove the rear storage bins and take a look with a flash light. We're talking about 4 philips head screws.
and go over the body with a magnet, cover it with a rag to prevent scratches.
11-18-12, 09:16 PM
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20bwannabe
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i used to live in dahlonega and made the trip everyday to work at greene ford haha. i sure do miss georgia. anyway, 4.5 sounds like the guy is way proud of that car. no way, try and get him down to a more reasonable price. i have no idea what that is for an old one in good shape but i got my car just yesterday for 650 bucks...in pretty bad shape but you get the point. these are not pricey cars to buy, but they are pricey to maintain and keep maintained.
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11-19-12, 04:54 AM
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Thanks you guys...this is exactly the kind of advice I need to hear regarding potential rust concern areas, etc.. I've checked the for sale sections and other online cars for sale sites and arrived at the same price conclusion. Since I'm not that good a mechanic I'm probably going to go with the "buy the best example I can afford to maintain and do minor repairs to" philosophy. I learned, the hard way, it's better to walk away from a car that doesn't quite feel right than get stuck. I will still have a look at this one as I do have a lot to learn about the rotary species and let y'all know how it goes and what I learned...and keep "ed-u-micating" myself here!
11-20-12, 04:24 AM
#9
Welcome!
$4500-5500 should get something close to a no-issues RX, at least in the more common FB 81-85 12a-engined models. Generally early SA models and the -SEs command more in the $5500-$7500 range for really nice ones. As you say, you can pay up front for a nice car or end up pumping the same -or more!- $$ in later.
At the risk of getting a beat-down here from my -SE brothers, I would be a little gun-shy of the SEs since they are certainly the most complex of the series and between the lack of new specialty parts from Mazda _and_ the lack of old-school techs who can keep things like the fuel-injection system up to snuff, you could be in for some fear-and-loathing. Now if you have found a reliable roto-tech that maybe a different story.
With obvious bias I would suggest the SA cars if you like something sweet and simple. I am no mechanic but have been able to do all the upkeep on mine these past 7 yrs of ownership. The downside is they don't have all the cushiness of the SE machines, or the refinement. But even these you will find to be a major step up from your Brit car experience.
Obv besides watching for potential rust - esp in the noted rear lower panels, you will need someone to pronounce your engine to be solid too. Rotaries can be up and seemingly running OK and still have the dreaded water-seal leaks that can be hidden by a clever/devious seller but mean a rebuild-only option in the near future for a new owner.
I believe even a Mazda dealer will still have the specialty tool (rotary-engine compression tester) to determine the health of your potential RX so it is worth the $100 or so for them to give you the inside story on how the engine is.
Couple of things you can do yourself on inspection:
-on arrival make sure the engine is still cold. Leaky rotaries (water jacket into combustion chamber) pump out a good volume of white smoke on cold start. knowing the problem, an owner may "pre-start" the engine so it will not display these symptoms when YOU are there to start it up. (once the leaky engine has been started and warmed up, the water in the combustion chambers is forced out. For a while. And it will start without this drama - until it sits overnight and collects more water...)
-check the coolant in the rad. If an oily sheen is present, it may indicate oil and water are mixing somewhere that it shouldn't be.
Rotaries DO tend to smoke a bit on start up, but it is oil (so, darker), not water (white-ish and sweet smell of coolant).
If you get (and I would!!!) a sunroofed car - lift off the panel, then lift up the weatherstrip to be sure there isn't any terminal rust running around the perimeter. Likewise the rear hatch seal along the bottom edge. There are 2 drains in the gutter there and if these are not kept clear, water collects with tree debris and rust starts along this lower rear area.
And: because the drains run INTO the trunk via a rubber hose (2, one on ea. side), then OUT under the rear bumper, you should open the hatch and pull up the rear carpet (at the back hatch) and make sure these hoses haven't been pulled off so water drains into the trunk and spare tire well. Ugly!
Some great RX7s out there.Patience for the right one will reward you. I had to go to California for my Beloved - and drive it back to Alaska. Ebay, no less!
'luck
Stu Aull
80 GS
Alaska
$4500-5500 should get something close to a no-issues RX, at least in the more common FB 81-85 12a-engined models. Generally early SA models and the -SEs command more in the $5500-$7500 range for really nice ones. As you say, you can pay up front for a nice car or end up pumping the same -or more!- $$ in later.
At the risk of getting a beat-down here from my -SE brothers, I would be a little gun-shy of the SEs since they are certainly the most complex of the series and between the lack of new specialty parts from Mazda _and_ the lack of old-school techs who can keep things like the fuel-injection system up to snuff, you could be in for some fear-and-loathing. Now if you have found a reliable roto-tech that maybe a different story.
With obvious bias I would suggest the SA cars if you like something sweet and simple. I am no mechanic but have been able to do all the upkeep on mine these past 7 yrs of ownership. The downside is they don't have all the cushiness of the SE machines, or the refinement. But even these you will find to be a major step up from your Brit car experience.
Obv besides watching for potential rust - esp in the noted rear lower panels, you will need someone to pronounce your engine to be solid too. Rotaries can be up and seemingly running OK and still have the dreaded water-seal leaks that can be hidden by a clever/devious seller but mean a rebuild-only option in the near future for a new owner.
I believe even a Mazda dealer will still have the specialty tool (rotary-engine compression tester) to determine the health of your potential RX so it is worth the $100 or so for them to give you the inside story on how the engine is.
Couple of things you can do yourself on inspection:
-on arrival make sure the engine is still cold. Leaky rotaries (water jacket into combustion chamber) pump out a good volume of white smoke on cold start. knowing the problem, an owner may "pre-start" the engine so it will not display these symptoms when YOU are there to start it up. (once the leaky engine has been started and warmed up, the water in the combustion chambers is forced out. For a while. And it will start without this drama - until it sits overnight and collects more water...)
-check the coolant in the rad. If an oily sheen is present, it may indicate oil and water are mixing somewhere that it shouldn't be.
Rotaries DO tend to smoke a bit on start up, but it is oil (so, darker), not water (white-ish and sweet smell of coolant).
If you get (and I would!!!) a sunroofed car - lift off the panel, then lift up the weatherstrip to be sure there isn't any terminal rust running around the perimeter. Likewise the rear hatch seal along the bottom edge. There are 2 drains in the gutter there and if these are not kept clear, water collects with tree debris and rust starts along this lower rear area.
And: because the drains run INTO the trunk via a rubber hose (2, one on ea. side), then OUT under the rear bumper, you should open the hatch and pull up the rear carpet (at the back hatch) and make sure these hoses haven't been pulled off so water drains into the trunk and spare tire well. Ugly!
Some great RX7s out there.Patience for the right one will reward you. I had to go to California for my Beloved - and drive it back to Alaska. Ebay, no less!
'luck
Stu Aull
80 GS
Alaska
11-20-12, 05:27 AM
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Wow Stu, thanks for those details! I know there are always quirky places water can collect (would not have thought of inside the rear hatch) in any car, so I will definitely check these areas. I thought that there were some specific areas of the SA's and FB's I needed to learn about. I'm not dead set on an SE...let's just say that I have fond memories of a pretty brown-eyed girl in an SE that I borrowed from a buddy for a date one night...ha, ha. So, I'm keeping an open mind on this adventure...and I expect I'll walk away from a few cars...but with the help I've gotten here from everyone already and the strength of the local '7 club, I expect that I will find what fits me. Ted
11-20-12, 09:17 AM
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Don't Cross The Streams..
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Wow Stu, thanks for those details! I know there are always quirky places water can collect (would not have thought of inside the rear hatch) in any car, so I will definitely check these areas. I thought that there were some specific areas of the SA's and FB's I needed to learn about. I'm not dead set on an SE...let's just say that I have fond memories of a pretty brown-eyed girl in an SE that I borrowed from a buddy for a date one night...ha, ha. So, I'm keeping an open mind on this adventure...and I expect I'll walk away from a few cars...but with the help I've gotten here from everyone already and the strength of the local '7 club, I expect that I will find what fits me. Ted
11-20-12, 09:35 AM
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Kenny
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it all depends on what you're comfortable with fixing, and your budget. From my personal experience with my WRX, if its cheap and there's "a few things to fix", you will fix those things and find 20 more things wrong.
IMO its better to just go out and find a restored and well kept car.
IMO its better to just go out and find a restored and well kept car.
11-21-12, 05:43 AM
#14
Wow Stu, thanks for those details! I know there are always quirky places water can collect (would not have thought of inside the rear hatch) in any car, so I will definitely check these areas. I thought that there were some specific areas of the SA's and FB's I needed to learn about. I'm not dead set on an SE...let's just say that I have fond memories of a pretty brown-eyed girl in an SE that I borrowed from a buddy for a date one night...ha, ha. So, I'm keeping an open mind on this adventure...and I expect I'll walk away from a few cars...but with the help I've gotten here from everyone already and the strength of the local '7 club, I expect that I will find what fits me. Ted
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
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