mwpayne

I think there was another thread on this somewhere, but I just had Kevin Landers (www.rotaryresurrection.com) work on my car. Originally, I was going to have him work on the 5th and 6th port sleeves and install the pineapple inserts. Ended up removing all smog crap (except the cat) fixed the 5th and 6th ports to be open all the time, and he also installed a 2nd gen intake with a cone filter. All I can say is WOW!. MUCH better low end torque as well as high end. Don't even feel like the same car! On the bad side, found out my compression is a bit low, in the low 80's. Still, the car absolutely screams! Most of you rotorheads can do this mod yourself, about a 25 HP increase, Kevin estimates. Worth every penny (and he's REALLY reasonable). Feel like I have a new car, no kidding.
Obviously I now have a perfectly good SE intake, all the stuff including ductwork and K & N filter if anybody needs it.

Manntis

By intake you mean the dynamic effect chamber?

mwpayne

That's the one.

O 16581 72452 5

Dynamic effect chamber? what is that, i want to do this mod.

Rotary13B1

iTrader: (8)

So the "mod" is removing all smog stuff, putting in a filter, fixing the 5th & 6th ports, and the pineapple inserts??? And if you removed all the smog crap, did you put in an exhaust too?? Kinda lost me here on where that 25hp came from....

Manntis

The dynamic effect chamber is that thing on top of the 13B engine where the 12A has the blue air filter. It creates a pressure wave which precompresses the air about +1-2 psi, like a virtual turbo, so to speak.

The one on the GSL-SE is rather boxy inside. When they came out with the FC they'd refined the design and the new DEC is good for a few extra ponies.

O 16581 72452 5

Is there anyway i could get a picture of this chamber from someone?

Manntis

it's the piece that says RE-EGI

sweetege

Your engine bay is very nice. YO!!!!!! LOL.
How did you get it so clean or have you kept it up good?

mwpayne

Nothing was done to the exhaust (yet) that has a RB cat and muffler. Now, I have no idea exactly the HP increase, I'm no car expert. All I can tell you is the car easily feels twice as quick now. I'll ask Kevin to write up what he did and how, and post it here. If the pics can be posted, I'll do tha too.

RacerX7fb

Amazing! The stock GSL-SE rates at 135HP..and an 86-88 FC is 146HP...that's only an 11 horsepower difference.
I'd like to read more about this soon..whats controlling the injectors, AFM..etc... I plan on doing a full S4 swap soon..S5 rotors..mild porting and keep it Cali smog legal

Manntis

It's well-kept. If you look closely you can see the very same battery, still starting the car, that the car left the Hiroshima with 18 years ago.

MRGSL-SE

I heard the S5 intake is better fit for a DEC mod.... the thing that confuses me is... if you change the intake and the ECU to control the injectors and read the Air Flow coming in..... what controls the firing.... Isn't it also controlled by the ECU....(I know the distributor fires it) but what controls the firing.... Do you also change the wiring harness on the other side?? In that case... the fuse and other internal compenents.... its attached to the same wiring??? Do you have to mess with that....??? It confuses me if you need to do all that stuff??

mwpayne

I sent Kevin the link for this thread. I hope he'll reply and answer the questions. I know he's extremely highly regarded in the 2nd gen forum.

hornbm

the wiwring the sleeves open thing has been discussed to death in the second gen forums.

It really boils down to this, having those sleves open all the time will really hurt your low end torque no matter what.

You are noticing the power gains from everything else you have done. Try running the sleeves normally, and be amazed at how much more low end torque you get.

mwpayne

The sleeves were running normally, and opening up at around 3k before. I have read the threads about this, and no one is as surprised as me that this car is TWICE as quick from a dead start as it was. Of course, the intake may be the reason, but the open sleeves sure don't seem to hurt. Again, I don't know enough or have the experience to even discuss this intelligently. Hope Kevin will chime in!

O 16581 72452 5

Can someone show me the part on the second gen that i replace the re-egi thing with?

O 16581 72452 5

Also is removing these sleeves for high end power a good idea? from what i understand i need to with the cats removed and a header because it's killing my top end.

Manntis

Just look at the top of the engine on both an SE 13B and a 2nd gen one. The Dynamic Effect Chamber is basically a fancy intake manifold - really hard to miss.

hypntyz7

OK guys, here I am

Basically here is a run-down of what was done and how.

I drove mike's car around town a day or 2 to get a feel for it, and man, was it ever weak on top end, from 4.5k on up, it was just freakin *flat*. You could "make" it rev on past 5.5k, but you could tell you were no longer making anything but noise under the hood.

I was willing to bet the 6 ports werent working ever, just like on an s4 NA. These cars ran the 6 ports on the exhaust backpressure, which IMO is a pisspoor way to work them. THink about it...a turbo car makes different boost in different gears because there is different amoutn of loads on the engine in each gear, so different amounts of air are being moved. Same for an NA, just that it doesnt have a turbo to amplify the effect...by definition, exhaust backpressure varies in every gear. How the hell are you going to get even 6pi actuation that way??

I usually go at it one of 3 ways: wire them open (easy, quick, free), run them off the air pump via a tee, a dual air valve, and some hose(about $10), or run them off an RPM activated switch and an air compressor set to run at 4krpm (this option costs about $100-125, but is basically bulletproof). THe wire-open method is good enough for me, and I dont notice/mind the small loss you take (it isnt what these damn perfectionists make it out to be, cause a rotary has no "low end" anyway). For someone with a near stock car, I use the air pump mnethod. For someone going for a clean enginebay, with several mods and money to support them properly, I go for the electronic actuation.

In this case, after driving the car, I decided to go with the wire-open method. First, an SE has the most low end of any rotary save a turbo...heavy (11.x lb) rotors account for this. So, since it has an excess of low end already, a little loss wont be bad at all. We wanted to remove all mike's emissions, and the air pump woulda looked sorta dumb sitting there running those little ports. IT would be easy for me to install, easy for him to understand, and would work just fine while keeping the bay super clean.

So, I removed his entire intake down to the block, including vacuum rail with fuel rails. I cleaned out the accumulated crud off the block, and got a 2nd gen (86-88) intake for it. Note that an 89-91 intake will also fit this engine, but there is an extra valve (VDI) in the middle intake of the s5 NA intake that requires actuation at 5.5k rpm, and with no rpm switch to activate it, you *will* in fact lose power with this one wired open, so I went with the s4. Plus, theyre real cheap and readily available.

While the intake parts were on the bench I cleaned em all up and blocked off anything that didnt need to be there...subzero startup valve, acv, bac, secondary injector ports (2nd gens have 4 injectors), the nipple for the primary injectors air bleed socket, etc. I lubed and installed the 6 port sleeves with the new pineapple inserts (great mod for 50 bucks) and the s4 lower intake mani.

Then I removed the stock fuel rail from the s3 vacuum rail, along with the injectors. I opened the injectors using a spare harnes connector I have saved, connected to battery power. Then I blow 100psi compressed air through them to remove crud and such. I then installed them and the rail on the block. I ran new fuel lines directly from the rail to the firewall connection and fuel filter. I also replaced the **leaking** fuel pulsation dampner (FPD) on the fuel rail, which is the cause of many thousands of rx-7 fuel fires. I use a banjo bolt, available out of any stock 86-88 NONturbo primary (lower) fuel rail. The pulsation dampner performs no useful action in the car, but can cost you thousands in repairs should it leak.

I noted that I needed to keep the following vacuum lines: 2 vacuum advance to the distributor, fuel pressure regulator on the fuelrail, brake booster supply, cruise control (mike's call). I ran these lines tee'd several times and finally into the lone nipple left on the s4 lower intake mani, on the outside edge. I then installed the s4 upper intake (dynamic chamber). Also, stock oil metering (4 into 1) was kept, but this doesnt get vacuum, rather "fresh air" from ports on the dynamic chamber. On the 2gen intake, these ports are on the front, and I used the stock one, which is a large vacuum line, that goes on the very top nipple.

I also had to use some short (primary) 2gen oil injectors in the rear housing and intake runner, to make them fit. The SE rotorhousings are taller than a 2gen (what the intake was made to fit) so the injectors actually hit if you use the stock s3 ones, so be sure to have some spares handy or plan to block off the ports and run premix.

Now, it's time for the throttle body. The s3 stock TB is so wimpy I dont see how it moves any air, and is possibly the source of largest gain when replaced. I estimate a stock s4 NA TB is 30% larger.You must use an s4/s5 NA TB with this mod, the s3 will not come close to fitting. The s4 uses the same TPS btw, so you can use it or your original. I removed everything from the throttle body (TB mod) except the cold-start thermowax (cold idle up) and it's 2 necessary coolant lines. This included secondary butterflies, dashpot, etc.

Now I put it on, along with the 2gen TB intake elbow...the 1gen intake hose no longer fits the 2gen TB. Now I had a real problem, as the s3 airflow meter is real little (2.5" OD) versus a stock s4 AFM (3" OD) adn it's respective hose. I went to lowe's and got a fernco 3"-2" rubber drain adaptor, and lubed the 2" end up enough so it'd fit the afm. Now mike's afm is almost directly on the intake, and I installed a cone filter on the end (using an adaptor) since the stock box would no longer fit.

I had to modify the cruise control bracket on the 2gen intake just a hair to get proper tensioning on the cruise cable, and that was about all I had to do to get this puppy rolling. Power increase from 4.5K on up was a good 15-20 on the butt dyno, though not official. This is one of, if not THE, best gain I have ever gotten out of a single mod on an NA. IT equals the power you gain with a full exhaust on a 2gen NA, which is often reported to be 20hp+. I would say with a full exhaust on this car, it'll be a quick NA.

Another note is that the fans on the 1gens seem to run like hell, and sap a lot of power, no doubt. I recommend an e-fan. Not a POS autozone fan either. I use a shrouded fan, believe it or not fits the stock FC (and sa/fb) radiator very well. IT is from a 91-96 ford escort...it is shrouded, 16"+, has 3 speeds, and moves a SHITLOAD of air. Best of all, they can be obtained for $25-60 all day long at junkyards. I recommend this mod as well, and it should free up a good 5 more hp, especially on top end.

Anybody with q's feel free to ask. Someone should archive/rate/sticky this somewhere for you guys, cause before I tackled the project I searched yourall's forum here and couldnt find any details on the swap. It is definitely worthwhile for you guys, and if you DIY you can complete it for under $75 easily.

O 16581 72452 5

All right cool, thanks for the help manntis.

mwpayne

Guys, this mod is incredible. If you don't want to do it yourself, take some vacation time and head down to east TN. and let Kevin tear into it a couple of days. You'll be glad you did.
Thanks for the write up, Kevin!

inittab

Nice write-up Kevin! Wish I had an SE to play with.

MyRxBad

I guessing that the majority of the HP increase came from removing the smog stuff, or from fixing all the other stuff and not the actual intake mod IMO.

You're initial air is still coming from the s3 AFM which is a bottleneck in the system. I could see if you went to a s4/s5 AFM or MAP sensor system to increase the air flow, but then you'd have to put in a new ECU and tune it, but in that respect you are looking at too much money for a moderate gain.

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Crazy man... Howd you manage an 18 Year battery life?!?