mwpayne

Well, there he goes again. Kevin's my absolute favorite fourm smartass! Funny, he's such a calm, passive guy in person..

All I can say is (again) that this $250 mod was did more for that car than I (or he!) ever thought it would. The thing actually scared me when I first drove it from Kevin's house, damndest adrenalin rush I've ever had.
If you have easy access to a dyno, great! If not SCREW IT and just do the thing, you'll be glad you did. Keep debating and '****-izing' stuff, next thing you know you're dead and missed out on some good stuff in life.

GSL-SE_84

I do have the RB header from mazdatrix and the high flow cat from mazdatrix, so does anyone think it would pass emissions with this mod? Man, for $250 that sounds like a great deal.

About the six ports, if you want low end, and yours are working, I'm assuming from what Kevin wrote that he can still make them work one of the other ways he was talking about. So you can get the mod and keep your low end.

GSL-SE_84

My shop told me all they care about is the reading on the sniffer.

mwpayne

This really seems to be a 'have your cake and eat it, too' mod, 'cause my low end is 100% better than before the mod. I don't know if it is the new 2nd gen intake, or the removal of the rats nest, or the combo (I suspect).Can you do the mod and leave the emissions? I don't see why not, but I am not in the know. I guess someone will just have to try it and let us all know. Kevin, want to chime in one more time?

GSL-SE_84

Exactly what I was thinking but didn't say it. Can you do the mod and leave the emissions. After all, it's all RX7 intake stuff right?

ChairborneRanger

Kevin,

Remember most of us are reading, not posting. I for one appreciate the info. I am not what one would consider a good mechanic. I guess I'll have to see if Joule's here in the springs can do this for me.

Personally, I don't wan't to loose my low end. If it was a difference of $250 without or $500 with I'd pay the extra to get it done "right". (right being defined as meeting customer expectations, )

hypntyz7

Getting something done "right" is definitely a matter of opinion. Most customers just bring me their stuff and say "make it go", and I am pretty much allowed artistic freedom in how it is accomplished, so long as it is practical for them in price and longevity.

The mod can be done WITH emissions, though it'd take some more head-scratching to figure out what (specific to this car and it's control system/ecu) must be kept from the s3, and what must be kept on the s4 intake (or s5). Of course it can be done, but for me, it sort of lessens the "cool" effect of the whole mod. After all, the goal is to make the system as simple as possible, and it's easier to troubleshoot 5 vacuum hoses than 25.

You can also do the mod in such a way as to retain WORKING 6 port actuators. You could do so by a) leaving them hooked to your stock exhaust and hoping (against hope) that they work. You could tee into the air pump as described earlier. You could make your own fully electronic setup as described above (msd rpm switch, 4000 pill, relay, and air compressor/airhorn motor). Which best suits you depends on the person, the mods, the budget, and the owners level of **** retention.

The last thing I have to say about the s4/s5 intake debate... Either will work, either will give a good gain vs. the s3 intake. The s5 is dyno proven (by others) to give 5-8hp on a s4 engine, and should do the same for the s3. Remember that this intake complicates things a bit more...to fit an s5 intake on an s4 block (or an s3 I assume) you have to shave/grind some material off the rear iron, because the s5 intake hugs the block much lower. You also have to figure a way to actuate the VDI valve, which should operate at 5500rpm...you cant just run it WITH the 6 ports. You'd need a SEPERATE actuation system for this, or just wire it open, which is the devil in the eyes of most of the posters in this thread.

The s4 intake is cheaper, more readily available, and no grinding/modification or VDI actuation setup is required. IT is also debated from time to time in the 2gen forum how well the s5 intake setup reacts to an internal streetport, and the general consensus among those of us in the know is that the larger of an internal port you run, the poorer the s5 intake performs (it is a TUNED intake, set up for stock ports), while the s4 intake does better and better with a larger port. All these things add up to me using the s4 intake. You can do whichever you want.

krwright

hypntyz7 -
How did you handle the EGR port below the center intake ports on the GSL-SE engine?
We just put an S4 intake on my friend's GSL-SE autocrosser and discovered the huge exhaust leak there when we first fired it up. Ended up bolting a piece of angle aluminum to the bottom of the intake after a little filing to make it square.
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/imag.../done-back.jpg
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/imag...done-front.jpg

In retrospect, an S5 intake would have been better - it has the same EGR port as an SE.
This particular car has a DIY EFI controller (MegaSquirt), so we were able to not only strip the emissions stuff, but lose the AFM as well.

MRGSL-SE

let me bring this post back....

I've been searching... the S5 lower intake manifold seems to be the better choise... because the s4 lower intake manifold doesn't have that hole just below the primary ports...

and use a S4 wiring harness, because it doesn't have the electric OMP connector... or use the S5 and use the electric OMP and change the front cover... and use the S5 actuators to be actuated by the ACV...

hypntyz7

Better keep on...

the s3, s4, and s5 wiring harnesses are all unique in how they plug up and how the pinouts are...they are nothing alike. You cant just take a newer computer and plug it in, or a newer wiring harness and plug it in. You mgiht as well get one from an FD and see if it'll work while you're at it...

MRGSL-SE

http://homepage.mac.com/carldavis/intake/intro.html

this is a good website... I know you don't like the VDI but its one reason why the S5 has 160 ponies.. even though there swapping in a S5 intake into a S4... their using a S4 harness... the S5 has that hole on the bottom that the GSL-SE have too... the S4 intake doesn't have that...

hypntyz7

Oh I love VDi, look under the hood of my 'vert. Nothing like that tug at 5500. But, I only like the thought of using it on a car meant to have it...in other words an 89-91 nonturbo with the ecu to control it. Otherwise, how are you gonna actuate it? It'll cost you about $100 to rig up a system to properly actuate it. Wiring it open is generally unacceptable, and takes away the effect of it anyway, so by the time all is said and done, how is it advantageous to the s4 intake (which might I add is easier to find and about 1/4 the price of the VDI intake)?

Sure they are. The simple rule of swapping engines or parts is that you must keep ALL the electronics IN the car that used to be in the car/on the engine. Like you were talking about using an s4 harness, or s5 harness, in your SE, well there is no way that can work. You might as well be trying to use one from a mx6 or something, because it'd be about as similar.

You're kidding me, right? I assume that anytime you do such a mod you ditch emissions. As such, this hole becomes useless. It costs about $2 worth of jb weld to pack that hole closed forevermore. That is not a worthy motovation to spend an extra 200 for a 5-8hp VDI effect, IMO. Not to mention the extra wiring/hoses necessary to make the VDI valve operate.

Bottom line, if you're a perfectionist, you can spend up to $300 extra making this setup all work to your liking (electronic 6th ports, and VDi valve with electronic actuation). And, still wind up with minimal gain over the system which I have installed. IF you're doing your own labor, you can do this swap for less than $40, as the s4 intakes are readily available everywhere (I have 2 for sale).

Most of the gain on this project come from a) getting the 6th ports open somehow, as theyre almost guaranteed to be locked or not opening, and b)the increase in throttle body bore (the stock SE TB is just comical when you compare it to the s4+).

Mills

iTrader: (1)

Right ON man!

I can't wait to get my *** down to TN. I want to do this mod and a couple others...

rx-7 crazy

if you switched over to an s4 AFM you'd need to switch to an 2nd gen ECU? how hard would that be what else would need to be done crank angle sensor?

Also if you had a street port (84' gsl-se) would carrying over the gsl-se inj. as secondaries help or would that be overkill? i have a Super afc thats made to handle a 2nd gen ecu so i'm getting real intrested at what i might be able to do...

hypntyz7

You didnt read anything I said did you??

I have only modified 2 SE's now, so i cant comment too much on what they can and cant handle. The SE is basically just a detuned s4/s5 engine. An s4/s5 NA engine, even with streetport and all the bolt-ons (IHE, timing, fan), doesnt have the need for more fuel until you get into spray or forced induction. In fact, on stock or lightly modified NA's gains have been shown by leaning out the mixture in the midrange. The only place you might need fuel is above 6500 or so with a streetport, though that hasnt been the case in my experience. Keep in mind the SE block has smaller stock ports an an s4/s5 block. A streetport on a true SE block is about equivalent to a stock port on an s4/5 block, and a large SP on an SE block is like a small SP on an s4/5 one.

rx-7 crazy

i worded that wrong don't get mad I'm really paying attention and i think you should keep posting what you do as suggestions F*ck the close minded people that want to ridicule what they dont understand.
i MENT to say could i switch 2 a 2nd gen ECU, and how hard do you think that would be. sorry bout the mix up

hypntyz7

IM not mad, but I cant really grasp the concept that even if you come right out and tell people the exact answer to a problem they still cannot understand. It makes me wanna say

Go back and read *again* my friend. I said:

IF it isnt already obvious, no stock 2gen electronic parts can be readily used without extensive modification/hacking. This includes ECU, wiring harness, AFM, injectors, or electronic OMP.

rx-7 crazy

let me tell you the problem and see if you can help instead of asking if solutions are possible. i bought a Super afc computer. its hooked up to my 84 rx7 but its not able to control the afm (it can control everything else). it has a wireing diagram on the second gen so i know that it would be compatable with the s4/s5 intake/afm is there any way that i could hook up the second gen afm in my car so that i would be able to use this computer. any suggestions would be help full if you need more info let me know thanks

toxic_d

Thats a popular swap as you will get a few ponies out of that. There is more airflow therefore more power.

Check this link

http://max7.rx-7.org/thecar_how2.htm

Kyle

Forseti

I would really like to see a dyno sheet before and after wiring ports open on a GSL-SE. I'd really like to know how much low-end torque (if any) is lost and where it occurs.

One thing is for sure..for anyone who hasn't taken their actuators and/or sleeves out and thorough cleaned & lubed them....their ports probably aren't openly freely.

My actuator rods were disgusting and still don't open all the way.

<F>

adssoccer

how much of a hassle is it to get the sleeves out and clean them? both actuators are working fine, but the rear sleeve must be nasty because i can't get it to open at all even though the actuator is nice and smooth.

MRGSL-SE

All right you say that its a big hassle(almost not possible) to change BOTH wiring harness and ECU... I know that a 2nd gen ecu won't fit in a GSL-SE wiring harness... People change the brains all the time with an upgrade computer... like haltec and motec and those other expensive computer.... why not a 2nd gen ECU and harness...

IF ANYONE out there that has a link on a ecu and harness swap for a S3 please post...

rx-7 crazy

i ment actually swaping them, and letting the super afc control it not swaping circuts, the s-afc dosent work with the gsl-se circut

hypntyz7

Alright, Im going to try and explain this once more, then Im done with it. Please read carefully.

There are 2 basic wiring harnesses in the 7. One controls the engine alone, and plugs into the ECU. Another controls almost everything else, runs behind the dash, drivers side of engine bay, etc. This harness also plugs into the ecu...how do you think the ECU gets power, etc.? It requires both to work. Not only do both harnesses plug into the ECU, but they both plug into each other as well, to run things like windshield wipers, cruise, gauge outputs, etc.

So you say you want to change to a 2gen AFM. Meaning you now need a 2gen wiring harness. Meaning you now need a 2gen ECU. Meaning you now need the 2gen MAIN wiring harness. Meaning you have just basically re-run every wire in the car, and made it into a 2gen...you'd also need many stock 2gen parts/sensors to do this as well. And all for what?

So you're a big hacker and you think you can cut and splice the appropriate wires into your SE harness...go right ahead. Im not saying it cant be done, because anything can. IM just saying there is no way it would be worth the trouble for the gain, and the possibility of screwing up. IF you need power that bad, go buy a mustang.

excitingleopard

^^^

Damn, I'm comming down to TN. I'm no mechanic, and $250 sounds reasonable.