Hey guys, has anyone done a real back to back with a n/a 13bpp from pump gas to alcohol? Im interested to see what real gains there are.

cheers
brent

 

I can't see alcohol having any real benefits in an N/A application as it's main benefits as a fuel are an increased octane rating which helps prevent from detonation (auto ignition of fuel) which is a result of overly high intake temps which are usually caused by turbos. But hey, if you're reving really high and on the track with a garbage intake setup it might be useful for a PP. Just saying what others with no experience will most likely say.

 

That's a pretty stupid response.
Methanol contains oxygen so its natural your going to make more power.
I have not done any back to back tests but I would expect somewhere between 5-10% more power

 

To add to that, it's main "benefit" is NOT it's octane rating. Sheesh, the internet...

 

hhm I was guessing 5-10% too,Im wanting to see around the 340-350whp mark,at the mo on 91 pump we can get 300whp with basic setup,whats the norm for the drag guys on alcohol for hp figures? they must be close to 400 rite? amazing really.and what rpm??

cheers
brent

 

are you saying flywheel hp or hp at the wheels because my pport makes 282 at the wheels and it best time is 10.48 126 mph on pump gas with a carb i am about 335 at the flywheel

 

hp at the wheels. Nice times dude,what car,trans and weight you got? we hoping to run a 10 with toyota box and 950kg car,hence why we need 300+whp,I havent done much in the way of n/a setups so not up to play with them,mainly hi psi meth stuff.Since doing this one its given me a bit more interest in the n/a stuff,was pretty happy to make 295@wheels hp and sure it will go maybe 305 as it goes fat after 9000rpm from microtech only goes to 9000,makes torque up to 10,000 but is flat from 9000 from the rich mixtures. Im quite interested in really playing with it to make some good power,I would love to see mid 300's on alcohol if the gain is there.

cheers
brent

 

Yeah, now that I look back at it, it was pretty ignorant of me to say that all that. I'm only just hitting up the N/A sections and learning, no reason for me to be saying that kind of thing especially when I have no personal experience.

 

weight of car is 1980 with driver and it is using a g-force 5 speed i know on na rotary you might see 5 to 8 percent more power

 

Cool thanks guys, the more I think and talk about it the more I think I need to to see near 310whp on pump then play with the alcohol. would I be unrealalistic chasing 340ish whp with the n/a pp??alot of guys must have near 400whp rite?I mean low 10's must be mid 300's easy??
drag7,if you dont mind me asking what sort of rpm you pull at that hp?

brent

 

How many times does this have to be pointed out.

The oxygen in the fuel has already formed hydrogen or carbon bonds, just like the water vapour & CO2 in your exhaust when burning normal fuel, you don't get more power from running EGR do you? It is already in a low energy state, nothing more to give.

There is no gain in power as result of atomic interation of the oxygen in the fuel, all it does is add mass, that mass allows for additional cooling of the intake charge as the fuel evaporates, which means the charge is denser & you get more free O2 oxygen (from the atmoshpere) into the engine at the same running conditions (intake air temp & pressure) because you get more air mass in there. The other factor is that both ethanol & methanol both have a somewhat higher flame speed (stable combustion, not knock) than straight hydrocarbon fuels so less advance (and compression of ignited mixture) is required for peak torque (assuming you could reach it on normal fuel, which is the case in an NA rotor).

 

lol

you do realize you are talking to monkeys? & not engineers

 

car is 85 mazda rx7 car goes through quater mile about 9500 to 9600 rpm i need more gear in the rear end i am going to tale you those guys are not making 400 to the wheels if they were they would be going 140 to 145 mph and the average drag rotary all motor is going 120 to133 mph they are giving you the power at the flywheel just look at some of the drag racing section here on the forume and you will see the mph there is one car who said he has 350 whp but he only goes 129 to 130 and are cars are about the same weight

 

Speak for yourself.

That's the first time I've heard of alcohol fuels having a HIGHER flame speed. Time to hit the books again, I guess.

 

If you search around for flame speeds & alcohols fuels you will find an SAE paper which although focused on thermodynamic efficency for transport & thus comparison of petrol/alchy mixes vs diesel @ high boost (ie running small engines @ high load to improve efficiency)provides some insights into the burn characteristics of the fuels. At decent pressures the alcohols and petrol mixes actaully eclipsed the efficency of diesel, I cannot recall how old the paper was however as to comparison with modern multistrike diesels & DI spark ignition.

Basically for an NA rotor you either run low octane pump fuel, or alcohol and get the minor power increase affored by the charge cooling advantage it offers, high octane hydrocarbon/leaded is an expensive step backwards.

 

Now what about E85 vs Methanol for N/A?

I'm going to be testing some highly oxygenated reletively low octane race fuel compared to my tested pump fuel for comparison. I may let you know the results. LOL

 

hey jay just wondering how are you going to test the fuel on the dyno or at the track

 

Track of course. Why would I waste my time and money on the dyno when I can have fun drag racing at the track and see if I can improve my times. All you need is your trap speed to see if your making more power. I should be testing at Irwindale within the next couple of weeks. I'll give you a heads up when I go.