Why not 2 stroke pre-mix in crank?
03-01-07, 06:48 PM
#1
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Why not 2 stroke pre-mix in crank?
I remember looking in to this a while back and I know it's been brought up before but when I asked Royal Purple at 7stock years ago I was told Racing Oil (premix or regular) does not have detergents needed to prevent carbon buildup for street cars. I was told it didn't matter on race cars since the engines were tore down regularly.
Well, this is not the caes or no longer is becuase I've been looking in to different premixs. I found Red Line and some other brand at the local auto stores and then another one at the motorcycle shop. All of the ones I picked are low ash, clean burning premix. Well, so I wondered why SuperAtuobacs didn't have an Amsoil version so I looked at their website and tried to call their tech support but it says their closed. Anyhow, they do have 2 stroke premix with detergents! The only drawback I see is the exteremly expensive price.
http://www.lubedealer.com/syntheticoildealer/
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx
Well, this is not the caes or no longer is becuase I've been looking in to different premixs. I found Red Line and some other brand at the local auto stores and then another one at the motorcycle shop. All of the ones I picked are low ash, clean burning premix. Well, so I wondered why SuperAtuobacs didn't have an Amsoil version so I looked at their website and tried to call their tech support but it says their closed. Anyhow, they do have 2 stroke premix with detergents! The only drawback I see is the exteremly expensive price.
http://www.lubedealer.com/syntheticoildealer/
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx
03-01-07, 07:14 PM
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I have run premix in my FD before! straight golden spectro motorcycle premix right into the oil pan. i ran it in the middle of summer too, when it was like 95 avg. i discussed it with my father, he owns a motocross company that makes performance products for dirt bikes. so he knows a ***** laod about this stuff. he said that he wouldnt see a problem with running it..so i tried it! i did notice a big drop in water temperature while driving and rapping the **** out of it. i couldnt get my FC to read any higher than 90c....which i thought was amazing for almost 100F ambient temps. i did check the oil often and noticed after probably about 500miles that the oil really thinned out. so i changed it and put regular 10w40 in her.
i think the big concern with running premix is that you need to check the flash point of the oil. premix tends to have a pretty low flash point. i'm no scientist, so i cant say what would happen if oil temps reached or whent over flash point, but i dont think it would be that good!
anywhay, i think this is a cool topic and something that i would like to hear more about from others if they have any experience or any imput....
thanks!
i think the big concern with running premix is that you need to check the flash point of the oil. premix tends to have a pretty low flash point. i'm no scientist, so i cant say what would happen if oil temps reached or whent over flash point, but i dont think it would be that good!
anywhay, i think this is a cool topic and something that i would like to hear more about from others if they have any experience or any imput....
thanks!
03-01-07, 10:56 PM
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Hmm, I'll have to check some sites and see if they list the flash point. I don't beleive it's listed on the bottle. Spectro is about $9 for a mini bottle. So assuming it's 1/2 a quart then it's about $80 for oil, not including the filter. If anyone knows the flash point thing, please reply.
03-01-07, 11:33 PM
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MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)
Request this of the Mfr. This is a common info sheet that all mfrs will generally send to you if requested. It should state the flash point. We have them to send out with all my companys products. It's a federal reqmt I believe.
03-02-07, 01:44 AM
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Oh duh, it was on the page at least for Amsoil - Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) 114 (237). The Sabor outboard is 248f flash point. Dominator sounded good but is only 198f flash point.
So now the question is what is too low of a flash point or rather a minimum to be safe in a rotary engine?
this is the new 2 stroke boat engine company - Evinrude.
So now the question is what is too low of a flash point or rather a minimum to be safe in a rotary engine?
this is the new 2 stroke boat engine company - Evinrude.
Last edited by GoRacer; 03-02-07 at 01:56 AM.
03-02-07, 02:00 PM
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ok, it is the flash point. Crank case synthetics are =>400f and premix is =>200f, so premix will deteriorate or burn up in the crank case. Since their was no tech support for Masoil, I called Idemitsu and they were helpfull. I'll have to check my bottles as he stated ZDP & ZDDP (zinc & phosferous?) will short the life of the cat.
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03-03-07, 01:55 PM
#10
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Flash Point: The lowest temperature at which a liquid will generate sufficient vapor to flash (ignite) when exposed to a source of ignition.
Originally Posted by GoRacer
If anyone knows the flash point thing, please reply.
03-03-07, 09:40 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Karack
no idea, mazda would have recommended it if it was necessary.
there is a better reason. there is 2 stroke oil and there is crankcase oil, 2 stroke oil doesn't protect as well since it is meant to be combusted where crankcase oil is not.
there is a better reason. there is 2 stroke oil and there is crankcase oil, 2 stroke oil doesn't protect as well since it is meant to be combusted where crankcase oil is not.
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