Wolf 3D Zeroing the Wolf
02-05-06, 02:02 AM
#51
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to align with the v from T1 start ign should be set at -5, and a split of 15..... that give -20 tdc... or should!!!!!
still wiatin for my turbo from drautosports.....so i cant time immediatly!
still wiatin for my turbo from drautosports.....so i cant time immediatly!
02-05-06, 04:04 AM
#52
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Hi Guys,
Actually, true on both accounts, with all things set to match, either starting point will allow you to reverse engineer the trigger 1 set point... but for the simplicity of having the map and all the modifiers set to 0, I am going to go ahead and recommend using the 0 and 20* ATDC marks...
Gregg
Actually, true on both accounts, with all things set to match, either starting point will allow you to reverse engineer the trigger 1 set point... but for the simplicity of having the map and all the modifiers set to 0, I am going to go ahead and recommend using the 0 and 20* ATDC marks...
Gregg
02-12-06, 12:05 AM
#54
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Running like crap
ok well here is the zero map i made, can you check it to see if it is right? with this map in it should align nedle to 0° on my wheel when timing pickup is connected to L1 and then at the "V" (-20°) when i move it to T1 right? for some reason it was not doing this, all i adjust is the Trigger 1 number right? i had it anywhere from my origional 58.7 Trigger 1 all the way to like 35? and then when I moved the conductive pickup from L1 to T1 it would be like at -15° instead of -20°? like my split was wrong. this is with the engine running. any suggestions? should i use the second map? should i do this without the engine running and with a second person?
Last edited by RotorMotor2; 02-12-06 at 12:12 AM.
02-12-06, 12:45 AM
#55
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well i think that the first map is off....
1. the split is 20 after the tdc.
2 i would use the trailing to time
3 the second map with a second person just to crank her up (janice can do that!)
4the split being the most retarded event happening will happen at 15 deg after the retarded 5 degrees of the leading. What you are doing there is compounding the error. I would stick to the -5 and 15 split..... that t1 should be at -20 tdc... ie, the V aligngs with the notch. I havent tried it yet. I am waitn for davinci guys to send me my turbo...
Hope this helps
George
1. the split is 20 after the tdc.
2 i would use the trailing to time
3 the second map with a second person just to crank her up (janice can do that!)
4the split being the most retarded event happening will happen at 15 deg after the retarded 5 degrees of the leading. What you are doing there is compounding the error. I would stick to the -5 and 15 split..... that t1 should be at -20 tdc... ie, the V aligngs with the notch. I havent tried it yet. I am waitn for davinci guys to send me my turbo...
Hope this helps
George
02-12-06, 02:05 AM
#56
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i am not understanding about the first map being off..... does the trailing split always fire based off of 0° or from your map? if you look my map is set to 0 and split is 20, and second map is -5 and 15 both with the difference of 20 right? also it is hard to always get my timing light inductive pickup to read through my Taylor 10.5mm silicone spark plug wires.... i am also going to replace my spark plugs today and run a test for my coils and for spark.
02-13-06, 10:32 PM
#57
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I think my waste spark on T1 is throwing me off, how do i disable this for my timing map? also is it normal for the fuel pump to run when you ground your CAS? the top one? the 12 tooth one? could this problem cause my car to run bad and spark wrong cause now its like at aprox -40° on L1 with the second map (-5 & 15) with my trigger 1 set to 58.7 could we be timing with the waste spark?
02-14-06, 12:59 AM
#58
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Boom!!
Well i think i figured out why it was running bad, i had it as rising edge in one folder and falling edge in another, so i changed them both to falling edge and then timed using the second zeroing map posted earlier (set all to falling edge) and ended up setting trigger1 to 47.5 and then loaded my regular map and changed my edges to falling in both folders and then changed my trigger1 to 47.5 and it ran great except poor power from stop in first but when going it was very fast then BOOM and makes lots of engine noise (sounds internal engine) and now back in the garage (all downhill) it is seased up!!!! arrrrgh!! so now i have plenty time to figure this out while i get another engine (#6) and try this agin ($1400 again!) so here is my map if you all want to disect it:
I would get another engine builder.
02-14-06, 06:35 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by RotorMotor2
Well i think i figured out why it was running bad, i had it as rising edge in one folder and falling edge in another, so i changed them both to falling edge and then timed using the second zeroing map posted earlier (set all to falling edge) and ended up setting trigger1 to 47.5 and then loaded my regular map and changed my edges to falling in both folders and then changed my trigger1 to 47.5 and it ran great except poor power from stop in first but when going it was very fast then BOOM and makes lots of engine noise (sounds internal engine) and now back in the garage (all downhill) it is seased up!!!! arrrrgh!! so now i have plenty time to figure this out while i get another engine (#6) and try this agin ($1400 again!) so here is my map if you all want to disect it:
Cheers
Michael Smith engine #1 dead due to a ****** placing sand in my tank!
engine #2 Large extend port + bigger fuel filter more fun
02-14-06, 06:41 PM
#62
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the engine was a used, unmodified 2 rotor cosmo imported from japan, i did not even open it, just had good compression, i blame myself for rushing the process of timing, guys what about the possible fact that my imput 1 could be off causeing my whole map to be off? somewhere i heard it should be around 60 and when i checkd it came to like 40? and what about the possiblility of a wiring problem like i mentioned earlier regarding the fuel pump linked to the sync trigger? and can somebody check my boost control folder and see if that is right? i also need to check my hand controller to see what the last max load is............
10-09-06, 01:09 AM
#63
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Hi guys,
Back from the dead!
After all this time i got my engine running. I will get on the timing issues next wednesday.
I re read the thread to refresh, and i will set -5 map and a split of 15. time it on t1. that should align my V notch. i am hoping to see deg trig one in the region of 60 degs.... fingers crossed!
George
jeremy.... dont forget to zero your new engine.... and NO BOOST lol
Back from the dead!
After all this time i got my engine running. I will get on the timing issues next wednesday.
I re read the thread to refresh, and i will set -5 map and a split of 15. time it on t1. that should align my V notch. i am hoping to see deg trig one in the region of 60 degs.... fingers crossed!
George
jeremy.... dont forget to zero your new engine.... and NO BOOST lol
04-15-07, 04:54 PM
#66
Jeremy - good thing you pointed me at this thread AFTER you rebuilt my engine!! 
Just kiddin' bro, I trust you, REALLY. 
It is obviously running fine right now. With the tooth wheel only installable in one position, it has to be close to the correct location. Since you did not disturb the hall effect sensors on my front cover, it should be close to the way it was. Since we determined I had a reman or rebuild in the car already, WTFKs how perfect it was before your rebuild.
I would like to confirm it is correct, but without the BOOM!! Reading through this thread, I get:
1. Set timing to -5, 15 degree split.
2. Connect timing light to the front trailing plug wire.
3. Confirm V-notch lines up with the pin while engine runs.
What about correcting it if it is wrong? I think my APEXi Power FC does not provide a timing trim setting. If the above procedure is followed and the notch does not line up, do we adjust the hall effect sensor position? Or loosen the four pulley bolts and twist the toothed wheel as far as possible in the right direction?
I could offset all my timing maps by the required correction. In other words, change to -8, 15 split and check again; if it is right then I have confirmed a mechanical misadjustment of +3 on my sensor location or -3 on tooth wheel position. All my timing values would need to have 3 subtracted. But what a PITA this would be! I would much rather fix the mechanical rather than tune around it.
-- James
Just kiddin' bro, I trust you, REALLY. It is obviously running fine right now. With the tooth wheel only installable in one position, it has to be close to the correct location. Since you did not disturb the hall effect sensors on my front cover, it should be close to the way it was. Since we determined I had a reman or rebuild in the car already, WTFKs how perfect it was before your rebuild.
I would like to confirm it is correct, but without the BOOM!! Reading through this thread, I get:
1. Set timing to -5, 15 degree split.
2. Connect timing light to the front trailing plug wire.
3. Confirm V-notch lines up with the pin while engine runs.
What about correcting it if it is wrong? I think my APEXi Power FC does not provide a timing trim setting. If the above procedure is followed and the notch does not line up, do we adjust the hall effect sensor position? Or loosen the four pulley bolts and twist the toothed wheel as far as possible in the right direction?
I could offset all my timing maps by the required correction. In other words, change to -8, 15 split and check again; if it is right then I have confirmed a mechanical misadjustment of +3 on my sensor location or -3 on tooth wheel position. All my timing values would need to have 3 subtracted. But what a PITA this would be! I would much rather fix the mechanical rather than tune around it.
-- James
04-21-07, 08:50 PM
#67
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ok, just to make an update on this thread for anybody that hasnt been up to date in my thread called "My Tuning" the reason my engine blew up was from overboosting to aprox 30 psi and running lean and had NOTHING to do with timing or anything on this thread, the reason i overboosted can be found in the other thread......
Jeremy
Jeremy
04-21-07, 10:43 PM
#68
Jeremy,
If you go back up and read this thread ^^^, you're talking about your messed up timing, then "BOOM!" with no followup on the cause. I didn't realize THIS boom was THE "900 HP Boom" from the unstable wastegate configuration. WTF, I don't know how many motors you've blown, my bad.
I also wanted to share with others who might read this, that we checked my timing to my satisfaction. First we tried the -5, 15 degree split previously suggested in this thread. But homey don't play that game. It really doesn't want to idle at 5 degrees retarded like that.
But the obvious thing to try was 0, 20 degree split (Gregg suggested I think) and this worked great. Procedure:
1. Set ECU to 0 degrees IGL, -20 IGT across the whole map.
2. Disable ISC and anything else that might affect timing.
3. Connect timing light to Front rotor IGT (upper) wire.
4. 20 degree ATDC V-notch on toothed wheel ought to line up with the pin on the front cover.
In my case (using an APEXi Power FC, not Wolf), the timing was slightly early (notch biased to the left of the pin). We reset the PFC to 21 degree split (0 IGL, -21 IGT) and found that it was slightly late. So the way my sensors are installed, my ECU puts out timing which is about 1/2 degree early (advanced). This should be close enough for my needs!!
Note this does not directly check the IGL timing, but does ensure that you have the trailing wires hooked up right and that your overall timing is correct (assuming you can trust your ECU to put out IGL correctly if it puts out IGT correctly). If you made a 0 ATDC mark on your toothed wheel: you can check IGL too (with the 0, 20 split timing) by connecting the light to either leading (lower) plug wire. Since both IGL wires fire every time (one wasted and one not per revolution), the timing light should catch the wrong side of the wheel half the time, and the 0 ATDC mark the other half of the time.
-- James
If you go back up and read this thread ^^^, you're talking about your messed up timing, then "BOOM!" with no followup on the cause. I didn't realize THIS boom was THE "900 HP Boom" from the unstable wastegate configuration. WTF, I don't know how many motors you've blown, my bad.
I also wanted to share with others who might read this, that we checked my timing to my satisfaction. First we tried the -5, 15 degree split previously suggested in this thread. But homey don't play that game. It really doesn't want to idle at 5 degrees retarded like that.
But the obvious thing to try was 0, 20 degree split (Gregg suggested I think) and this worked great. Procedure:
1. Set ECU to 0 degrees IGL, -20 IGT across the whole map.
2. Disable ISC and anything else that might affect timing.
3. Connect timing light to Front rotor IGT (upper) wire.
4. 20 degree ATDC V-notch on toothed wheel ought to line up with the pin on the front cover.
In my case (using an APEXi Power FC, not Wolf), the timing was slightly early (notch biased to the left of the pin). We reset the PFC to 21 degree split (0 IGL, -21 IGT) and found that it was slightly late. So the way my sensors are installed, my ECU puts out timing which is about 1/2 degree early (advanced). This should be close enough for my needs!!
Note this does not directly check the IGL timing, but does ensure that you have the trailing wires hooked up right and that your overall timing is correct (assuming you can trust your ECU to put out IGL correctly if it puts out IGT correctly). If you made a 0 ATDC mark on your toothed wheel: you can check IGL too (with the 0, 20 split timing) by connecting the light to either leading (lower) plug wire. Since both IGL wires fire every time (one wasted and one not per revolution), the timing light should catch the wrong side of the wheel half the time, and the 0 ATDC mark the other half of the time.
-- James
04-23-07, 08:07 PM
#69
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James, you are absolutely correct, i should have been more clear on the topic about my previous post in this thread, if you read correctly (and understanding wolf's correct trigger 1 setting) then you will read that i had corrected my timing first and then blew my motor from an unknown (at that point in time) reason and is why i posted up my map to see if others can find a problem with it (which they couldnt because my problem was physical). i hope this clarifys things for everybody.
and James although this might be the correct procedure that we did for your car (Power FC) it may not be the correct way for setting the trigger 1 on the wolf.
you briefly mentioned this but i was just clarifying a second time.
Jeremy
and James although this might be the correct procedure that we did for your car (Power FC) it may not be the correct way for setting the trigger 1 on the wolf.
you briefly mentioned this but i was just clarifying a second time.
Jeremy
