signofinfinity

Hi all

This is my most recent map. Still road testing it.

Only question is i cannot get my idle O2 down from 9.7!!

I think its in the initial engine tempreture settings.... any clue guys?

With this set up i am running 12psi boost, 550/850 13B-REW Non Seq 3mm Seal and extended street port.

Michael Smith

Hi Signofinfinity,
You might have a leaking injector. Does this happen after it is warm? Also you may have a map point near idle that is way too rich. Because of the way these interpolate the data between points even if you change the fuel where you think is near to where it is running at Idle it may NOT be the point that actuclly causes the rich condition!
Regards
Michael Smith

Michael Smith

OK I had a look at your map and the problem looks to be that your staging is too Sharp! You need to go 0%,0,0,5,10,20,45,90,100..... in the 1:1 mode........
Between 0 and 36% you don't really need your secondry injectors. What I think is happening is that because you have 2 injectors per rotor running that you adjustment is too course. When you change you pulse width shorter it is rich then it all of a sudden the next step it in injection timing it stalls and you can't see why, this is because it has gone from rich to lean in one adjustment. By using only your 550's you can get a finer adjustment!
Regards
MIchael Smith

nyt

iTrader: (1)

ive never seen an engine that could idle at 9.7. id check your o2 sensor equipment.. if your car idles smooth, its idling smooth... prolly around 12-13:1

signofinfinity

hi.

I checked the fuel injectors before installing them,but yes...it starts cold just fine....then when it warms up....o2 goes outa the winda!!

i removed the idle staging, (i thought i had remover the staging till 43 load band), and now i installed a heated o2 sensor and stoichiometer...

On boost i am on the rich side...but still rich on idle too. what kind of pulse lenght am i looking at round idle with 550s? 2.2 ish??

Just tried the car on track... this is the map used with staging...

idle is still rich though!!!!but its smooth. just with no load i can pick up to the redline without no hassle...as dump 7 psi boost with no load

signofinfinity

here goes...

this is based on a load factor of 15psi

runs quite good..

still a bit rich on the idle...but stochiometric on any load and rpm....

soon off to dyno...

any suggestion? Mike? NTY? that idle is killing me!!

Idle band at 21 at 880 rpm.

injectors are re removed, serviced, and the sealing washer from fuel rail and block replaced with VITAN Oring....

advanced idle timing....but i cant get my O2 down!!!

Michael Smith

OK I run about 3.2 to 3.5 at idle and it runs at about 14.7-15.0:1 I would check that your trailing ignitors are working. Usually if your sensor gets cold you get a lean reading. You may also have too much overlap in your port timing if it has been changed and the injectors are firing raw fuel out of the exhaust port. Now this can some times happens too if you have the rotor1 and rotor2 injectors swapped on the primaries as injector timing can cause this problem.
Regards
Michael Smith

signofinfinity

hmmm yes it figures, but i am getting 14.7ish ratio on any rpm and load....

in fact, accelerating the engine with no load on, i get lean to stociometrich. just at idle i get the high o2.

if the primary injectors have been swapped wont it effect the mid and high range rpms?

by any chance, i am not sure on the injector and ignition cycle timings...whats the difference between 1 and 0 and 255???

i left those as was, however the engine configuration is set at 28. that is a distributor ignition.. i am running multi coil!!! also, if i change to config 29 the engine wont fire and miss. so i left the injection timing and ignition as is...

can anyone explain the relation between 1,0 and 255 or any figure that goes in between??? sorry for sounding dumb...but this is my first run at tuning...certain things are a bit of a black veil.

Thanks mike for your inputs...always valuable points!!

does my ignition timing make sense from that map??

signofinfinity

i mean within the idle range? i am running 21degs..

ps...my o2 sensor is a three wire heated probe...

Michael Smith

I run about 18 to 20 degrees at Idle. The point I was getting at is that maybe your wiring is reversed to your primary injectors. The other problem I have seen is a failed fuel pressure regulator can cause rich idle conditions too! You should see your fuel pressure going up and down with load. If you regulator was faulty you may have already tuned around the problem. What is the reading with the heater off?
It should go lean. Maybe your heater is over heating the O2 sensor at idle?

Michael Smith

signofinfinity

Thanks Micheal.

I verified the injector plugs to be set accordingly. I also put an FPR to manually set the pressure. I am using a wide band heated 02. Its on the lean side when off, stochiometric on engine warm up... stoichiometric on the rich side at WOT and rich on idle.

By any chance, could this have to do with it? I am running Multi coil on the FD, but my engine config is set at 28 not 29. Anytime I set 29 the car wont fire up. I reset my ignition timing and injector sequencing for a multi coil, but left the engine setup in the engine folder 28. does this map make sense??

sorry for my late response but i was stuck in OSLO....

thanks

signofinfinity

anyone?

Michael Smith

OK I have had a look at the difference between mode 28 and 29...... You must have your wiring wrong to your ignition and it would be missing its trailing ignition pulse on one Rotor. I presume you have a multipoint series 4 or is it a series 5 ignition....option 28 only uses 2 outputs one for leading and one for trailing it is designed to be used on a electronic pickup with distributor that distributes the spark. Misssing the trailing or leading spark will cause your problem at idle. Can you give me some details on your Ignition system please....model, version, and setup.
Regards
Michael Smith

signofinfinity

Thanks Michael,
Well I am running a plug and play series 6 wolf. The engine harness is the stock harness, with the rat's nest removed. I have the HKS twin Power amplifier. I managed to get a better idle, but still i lean out on the over all trim and still get a rich o2, then the engine dies from fuel starvation.
I went for a plug and play unit to avoid any wiring problem, but it seems that i didnt solve them!!!

i run the stock S6 ignitors and coils. the wiring is stock FD3S. The RX is an FD, so all the wiring is stock!!

Thanks a million...

ps the wiring is of an FD3S 1993 R1

Puzzeled George

Michael Smith

O.K> I would still guess that there is a wiring problem/fault with your ignition not firing a rotor face this can be the only reason for the rich fuel mixture. I would guess that raw fuel is making its way to your turbo and slow burning down the exhaust. Do you have access to a timing light? Also do you have the factory computer? If so does it do the same???? my guess is that it will. I will have a look at circuit diagram for a series 6 engine. Do you have documentation on the Plugin, a manual??

Michael Smith

signofinfinity

well, I only got the wire in Data. I was never sent any manuals qith the unit.
Strangely enough though, on cruise i go to stociometric and also lean. At WOT, i run at 15:1 with 9 to 10 psi of boost. I have very good pick up and response, and running some 12.5 sec on the quater. Idle is my main issue. mind you, some times i manage to idle between stochiometric and lean but the its way too lean fo a smooth clean rev up.yes, i checked my timing. dead on at 60deg. I also changed my ignitor,but to no avail.

When changinging engine type to multicoil, ie no 29, the triggering reverts to dual pulse.... and that mucks it up!!
could it be that with an extended street port i must keep her on a fast idle? say 1200? she idles perfectly at 750 but rich, stochiometrich by 1200....

sorrry for all the hassle mike, but, even my shop is at a dead lock here....and i am on my own again!!

regards hardware, injectors are serviced, manual FPR set at stock, sealing bungs for injectors replaced. 38-40 psi fuel pressure.fd ignitor,and coils...

only thing left i think are the plugs...i am running stong NGK...perhaps by going to a colder hotter plug??

thanks and sorry for the trouble...

george

Michael Smith

OK George this is what is happening. When you running #28 you are only firing your Leading Coils. The leading is IGN2 and the Trailing IGN4 connects to nothing!

For #29 IGN2 connects to the leading Coils IGN1 connects to Trailing Rotor 1 and IGN3 connects to Trailing Rotor 2.

IGN1 = pin 32
IGN2 = pin 33
IGN3 = pin 34
IGN4 = pin 16
On a Standard Version 4 wolf. (Not a plugin)
You need to get a timing light to prove that each coil is firing. I will bet that the trailing coils don't work at all on #28
On #29 you need to get a friend to crank the engine with a test map set at 0 deg with a split of 10 you should be able to determine if the timing is correct. As for the crank angle sensor problem I would guess that wolf should be able to help you out with that. Nyt has mastered the standard series 5 sensor he may be able to help out if you can get the number of teeth on the sensor. I have no knowledge in that area but would like to know the solution myself.
Regards
Michael Smith

signofinfinity

Thanks Micheal...

does it help that i configured IGN1 and 2 to 0 and IGN3 and 4 to 1

i tried to alter the ignition set upwith regards to the sequencing but didnt touch the number (28/29).... I set the 28 with the 29 ignition sequence so i can still run reference and sync....make sense?

i will do that test with the test light. but i am still puzzled why a plug in direct fit would miss wires!! i will check it out.

always valuable help michael!!!

Michael Smith

I don't think that your connections are messed up just that the plugin thinks you have a modified CAS instead of the standard CAS what you need is the unit set to #29 and the correct data for the CAS and your rich idle will disappear and you will make more power as well. What we need is someone with a successful Series 6 Plugin Swap. In the mean time I will crack open a Series 6 Circuit diagram and have a peek!

Regards
Michael Smith

signofinfinity

hmmm, i checked a couple of maps with #29, so i copied their config....
the last map i posted was with the copied data. but still left the engine set at #28.

i think that you must change the config too not just the sequence right?

Michael Smith

Ok George I recon that I know whats going on here.
Here is quote from Wolf's support page.

"Gen 3 (Series 6 and 7 (Twin Turbo)) engines: We recommend replacing the original crank sensors with Hall Effect sensors. This reduces the chance of any crank sensor issues that may occur. You can use all of the original coils and igniters, although it is far better to have 2 single ended coils for the leading sparkplugs on high performance engines."

My guess is that at low speed ie idle the sensors don't put out enough voltage for the Wolf to detect. I know that it has 2 sensors like the series 4/5 but it is a genuine crank fitted Crank angle sensor and not a modified dizzy like the s4/5 use. Now looking at the manual and not having looked at one of these in the flesh my guess is that it has 1 outer tags and 12 inner bridges. (2 rotations = 2/24 like S4/5 CAs) Is this correct???? if is is then if you set it up like Nyt suggests( https://www.rx7club.com//showthread.php?t=377388 ) for the standard series 4/5 dizzy you should have a runner on #29 you may need to configure the voltage pickup too stepped so it starts at very low and works its way up. This will ensure good spark.

Hall effect sensors give a very sharp clean output compaired to coil pickups maybe Wolf has a standard replacement for the series 6/7. Beware Hall sensors will require a 12 or 5 volt supply to go to the CAS.

I think the output voltage is the bad idle problems causing irregular timing signals and missed sparks. As the engine speed rises the output will increase removing the problem. The next question is I bet that the computer on #28 is using the reference pulse on the outside only this too may cause some stranger problems but seeeing that the leading coil fires on 1 and 2 at the same time it will run on them alone!
Regards
Michael Smith


What do you recon???????

nyt

iTrader: (1)

if hes having trigger issues, hell see errors incrementing. is this the case?

Michael Smith

Hi Nyt , George is having trouble with a unadjustable rich mixture at idle which indicates that the trailing plugs are not working. Now instead of the Wolf being on #29 it is set to #28 which will only fire the leading coils. Thats why at Idle he is having a rich indication becasue raw fuel is making it into the exhaust. Now the reason it is set to #28 is that it won't run on#29 and the reason for that is that the CAS setup by default to the modifed CAS and to make it run you require the same setup you described under Standard CAS setup for series 4/5. Also at idle the S6/7 pickups may generate a erratic signal as far as the Wolf is concerned.

What is required is to set the Wolf to #29 and then follow your CAS setup thread and George should have a working ignition system with leading and trailing ignition with a AFR of 14.7 instead of 9.7 like he has now!

Regards
Michael Smith

Michael Smith

Hi Nyt , George is having trouble with a unadjustable rich mixture at idle which indicates that the trailing plugs are not working. Now instead of the Wolf being on #29 it is set to #28 which will only fire the leading coils. Thats why at Idle he is having a rich indication becasue raw fuel is making it into the exhaust. Now the reason it is set to #28 is that it won't run on#29 and the reason for that is that the CAS setup by default to the modifed CAS and to make it run you require the same setup you described under Standard CAS setup for series 4/5. Also at idle the S6/7 pickups may generate a erratic signal as far as the Wolf is concerned.

What is required is to set the Wolf to #29 and then follow your CAS setup thread and George should have a working ignition system with leading and trailing ignition with a AFR of 14.7 instead of 9.7 like he has now!

Regards
Michael Smith

signofinfinity

wow double posts...

Hi NTY long time no see, hope you are fine.

Well Michael, here goes....I did check on that. Actually on the plug and play version there is a board to modify the reluctor out put. wolf suppy the halls for the wire in versions. in fact i was told NOT to use them with the plug and play

Very true!

Well i followed NTY to the letter. I hooked up with the ECU on line. However the sync offset would stay only at 5. had i to place it at 0 then the car would foul up an go crazy missing and uneven. put in a five...and ho and behold.

weird thing is this. when the engine is warm to operating temp, i managed to get a 14.7 ratio, after say 5 minutes idle the ratio starts creeping up and re settles at 9.7. Now i wonder why thats happeneing. I turn her off....re start and same thing....14.7 bang on and slowly creeps up.

I received from chris too of wolf usa. he kindly said that the engine config does not matter if you input the sequence manually....so that figures.

could it have anything to do with just a bad fuel and ignition delivery from the map??? any clues? this is the map am using, with overall trim set at -10 though to get a lean to stochiometrich idle, howeve a lean rough pick up