enuttage

This would be with twin turbos, but not necessarily stock. I'm looking at some hybrids from Pettit that would up the stakes a little.

Pretty much all I have so far in the way of modifications are a downpipe and a catback exhaust. However, in the way of reliability mods I also have a removed separator tank, silicon hoses and a boost gauge. That's about it.

What can I do to get ~350 rwhp VERY reliably? I've seen bits and pieces in other threads, but nothing specifically, esp. with the twins.

-E

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

air intake system $400+
DP $300+
MP $300+
cat back $400
1200cc secondary injectors $350 (stock bored out)
Apexi PFC $1200
large intercooler $1300
upgraded fuel pump $200+
--------------------------------------------
$4450+

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

I forgot to add an aftermarket radiator. Another $450.
Now we are up to $5000 easily and this does not include installation unless you do it yourself.

mmaragos

I would add some dyno time with a wide band O2 to go with the mods that Chuck has recommended, if you want to be "very reliable" and safe.

Probably would change the fuel filter too and add a new clutch that will handle the HP.

enuttage

That's pretty much along the lines of my consideration thus far.

You can subtract the DP and the catback, as they are already installed.

Now, do I need any new electronics (as in ECU) for this, especially with the mentioned changes to the fuel intake?

I think I'm skipping out on the midpipe also, mainly 'cause I don't want to fail emissions, or have to deal with replacing anything for the test...unless you guys think I can pass with it?

I'm looking at pouring around $10K into the car over the next 2 years or so. That includes interior, so the $5K number is actually encouraging.

I'll be doing most any install that I can myself, and having the local rotary specialists do the rest...hopefully that's where I'll get my dyno time in as well.

Keep 'em coming if you have more. This is a potential daily driver and autoX car, so I definitely want safe and reliable...with lots o' ponies!

-E

maxpesce

Impossible to pass emissions with MidPipe (No Cat) - 350 HP is very posible with a High Flow Cat - but even w/ HF Cat it may be difficult to pass emissions @ 350 hp level of tune
also unless you are very shure of the internal condition of the engine, get a rebuild (and street port) before any more HP bosting Mods (Big IC, Enlarged injectors etc)

Without porting and near stock turbos I don't think you can flow enough air to justify 1200 cc injectors, the Stock Injectors should get you to 350hp ok with a Fuel Pump upgrade & Raising Rate fuel Pressure Regulator.

mazdaspeed00

iTrader: (6)

upgraded clutch and flywheel also. i think the stock clutch can hold hold around 300hp

PasadenaRX7

if u need to pass emisions, just put the stock cat on, run the test., then put the MP back on.....hehehe

rx7eaven

Very true. An Apexi PFC is a programable ecu. Depending on the mileage of the car you might want to get a rebuild and street port done. Bigger injectors, fuel pump, clutch, flywheel, IC, @ least a hi flow cat, and intake. Most say that going single, however very costly, is very reliable b/c you cut down on all the hoses.

airborne

you'd be surprised...i constantly see 80% duty on my stock injectors, have seen just over 90%. this is only at 300rwhpish tune. even at 80% the injectors will wear faster, even if they do provide enough fuel. better safe than sorry...you did say reliable right?

jimlab

A Gen. II LT1 V8/BW T56 6-speed conversion with a mild cam upgrade, some roller rockers, and a 58mm throttle body.

You said reliably...

maxpesce

You don't list Fuel Pump or regulator upgrades- Note I recomended both for 350 hp - injectors flow is rated at fixed fuel pres. and no boost/vac. AS boost pressure raises you need to raise fuel press to maintain rated flow - also increasing the fuel pressure can increase flow over the rated flow.

50tooslow

Oh no, not the rotary vs. smallblock thing again please. Anyway Jim hows the project coming. Do you have it running yet, I am interested in hearing how it runs.

RX7_RCR

He also said with the twin setup. And not having to hack up the front end either...

jimlab

Yeah, but I was under the impression that he was suffering from delusions. There's no such thing as a reliable 350 RWHP with the stock twins. Reliable 300-320 RWHP, maybe, but if you're going to push 350 RWHP on a regular basis, you'd better start shopping for a single and/or fuel mods for an improved margin of safety.

Sure, appropriate fuel mods can keep it running, especially if you just douse the engine with fuel and get rid of the stock ECU, but it's still no guarantee that you won't be replacing an engine eventually. Even major vendor-tuned single and twin turbo cars lose engines. I can even name one Mandeville-tuned Motec car that lost an engine at 10 psi...

And since when does a complete bolt-in solution consitute "hacking up the front end"?

jimlab

Engine will be done and dyno tuned this month. We're expecting a bit more power than what the computer simulation showed...

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Ditto on everything Chuck recommeded for you to do. Also, get the mp, and just swap in the stock cat when its emmissions time. Only takes 30min. The power you'll get is well worth it. When I took off my bonez high flow cat and installed a mp w/ stock twins, I dynoed 25rwhp more! The torque drops a little, but you'll gain gobs of power to top end.
And your stock turbo's will easily make 350rwhp w/ out getting a hybrid set from Pettit.

Magnificent 7

Hey Chuck, is the list you posted pretty much a sure thing? I hope so, I have all of the exhaust and the PFC. If I don't sell it I'll be seriously saving for the IC. I'm working on a fresh air intake, and will get the fuel pump soon.

The PFC can be adjusted for the larger injectors. I thought larger injectors would have a lower duty cycle than would be seen for original injectors under the same conditions of service.

Enuttage, you can get by without having cats in Texas (not legally of course, but it can be done). At least until they have sniff testing I guess, but maybe even after that, depending on who you know.

Also I hope you'll be able to attend our monthly club meeting this Wednesday, December 5th at Rudy's BBQ North on 183 just south of Duval. The meetings are the first Wednesday of every month. They start at 7:00 and last as long as you want to stay.

95R2-89TII Ground Zero

Should work for you. But if your going to upgrade the injectors....maybe you should do the pump too. I have the Cosmo 20B...very nice. Then you can control your boost more reliably.

silver93

you can also buy the stuff used, in which case you can knock up to 40% off the price

jackc

You might want to get a vaccum hose tie down. Or if the vaccum hoses are brittle then change them.

But make sure who-ever does the job takes the extra effort to make sure they are done right.

This ended up costing me to rebuild my rear turbo because of incorrect Vaccum line placement. They missed the one for the
charge control.

ouch!!! $1800.00 Canadian $$$dollars just for a used turbo cartriage and install. jc.

neevosh

That's what it's gonna take. Also a better clutch and radiator for good measure. And don't forget some sort of boost controller. You're probably gonna need to run more than 15psi to get those numbers on a stock ported engine.

Splinemodel

This may be of interest to you:
http://www.rotarypowered.com

He has a 93 running 362 rwhp on 14psi, and his site is very informative.

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost to have the engine rebuilt?

enuttage

Thanks guys.

I'm getting a few different answers here (re: fuel pumps, injectors, turbos, etc.), but a fair amount of consistency. Sometime in the next coupla days, I'll post what I have in mind in the way of mods and see what else y'all have to say.

Jimlab,

I AM delusional, but not necessarily about 350 rwhp . I'm probably NOT going to be using the stock turbos...probably the Pettit hybrid replacements that should up my potential. Also, I'm not in any way against upgrading my fuel components.

Splinemodel,

Thanks for the link. That's a handy site. I've seen it before, but I'll bookmark it this time.

Mag7,

I will certainly eventually come to the meets. I've got some home remodeling stuff going on the 5th, but you'll eventually see me. Thanks for the invite! I look forward to meeting some of the other Austin folks.

-E

jimlab

This is not the best example...

1) That's Brooks Weisblat's old car (and web site), Brian Dowling didn't do the work to get there and doesn't know much about it other than that he bought a fast car.

2) Brian wrecked the car, as far as I know. Not sure what the outcome of that was, but the rumor was that he stacked it up not longer after he bought it. All the pictures on that site were taken while Brooks still owned the car, and Brooks has built himself a "new" site for his Viper GTS...

http://viper.dragtimes.com/

Not very original, is he.

3) Brooks' old car, if it's still alive, made very good power, but Brooks also paid for that power with 2 engines, his stock engine and a Pettit-built 3mm seal engine. If nothing has happened to it since, this car is on its third engine.

So this isn't the best example of "reliable" power. In fact, most of the people I know from the "big list" in the last 5 years who have reached or exceeded 350 RWHP have lost at least one engine doing it.

As you're learning, if you want to make a reliable 350 RWHP, you'll need to upgrade both your fuel system and your turbos, as well as a few other support pieces, and tune the car. It's not as easy as bolting on parts, or everyone would be making 350 RWHP, right?