enuttage

jimlab,

Noted. As a point of clarification...whether needed or not...if I gave the impression that I wanted to do all this via boltons only, I conveyed the wrong message.

We (my father-in-law and myself) have an estimated budget of a little under $13K we'll be working with and toward during a 2-3 year time period.

Now you guys tell me...will $13K be sufficient to get ~330 rwhp and a new paintjob...reliably? My completely newbie and uneducated guess says "yes", but I don't know (obviously).

-E

theman

Damn Jim, I've seen bigger TBs on a SPOON civic!

enut, are you sure you're looking at a hp goal or do you just want the car to be a really fast nice looking street machine?

With the list of mods here you will easily get a very fast and mostly reliable street car... Just don't go getting impatient and jack up the boost a few pounds just to hit your magic number on a dyno. Don't go skipping out on an upgraded radiator just to get the Petit turbos, (which are probably nice but don't get set on one mod until you research all the possibilities)... Your projected buildup is 2-3 yrs so you have time to do things the right way. read as much information out here as you can and that will be one of your biggest helps...

Hey Ernie,
What happened that last time out at MIR? You almost had him but something happened there at the end of the track...

JoeD

go with an Apex RX6 BB turbo kit. with all other mods mentioned above, you will make 350 RWHP running 10-11 PSI, and you'll be able to turn it up to about 16 or 17 PSI, making close to 440 RWHP. the later wont be as reliable, but only runing 10 pounds will achieve your power goal, and be really reliable.

my .02.

JoeD

BTW jim...whats up with the 58 mm TB?? ive seen 70 mm TB's for civics! :p

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

theman,
I almost had him, but he was running 30lbs of boost as apposed to my little 12lbs. Big difference especially on top side where he really pulled me.

zooq

enuttage
talk to Fadi or Hass at Pro Tech performance.
they are realy good with Rx-7s.
they should help you out + they have a dyno in the shop.

enuttage

theman,

Thanks man . Yeah, believe me, I'm going slow and careful. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to running my vehicles.

I'm not the guy to crank the boost so I can race some fool down the highway just for bragging rights. I may still race the fool , but not at the risk of blowing up my engine.

First things first is to get everything cool...Fluidyne, new IC, double-check that ALL the hoses have been replaced, etc.

THEN, we move to performance mods. I'm just getting an idea of what I'll need at that point.

JoeD,

Is that Apex RX6 ballbearing a single turbo unit? If not, where can I find it. If so, I'm not really looking to switch to a single. I like my no-lag FD. I already have one laggy turbocharged car. I love my Subaru, but I love the FDs balance power curve even more.

-E

enuttage

Okay, here is a list of all I plan to add/change, in no particular order:

-Hybrid twin turbo upgrade
-ECU
-Dual core intake
-BOV
-Intake elbow
-Larger IC (not a FMIC)
-Pulley kit
-Turbo Timer
-Boost Cut Controller
-Fuel Pump
-EGT gauge
-Dual solenoid boost controller
-Secondary injectors
-FPR

Maybes:

-Midpipe
-Street ported 3mm apex rebuild

BTW, I haven't contacted ProTech yet, as I'm trying MZM out first. They have the car now, giving it a check up. However, they haven't called me for the two days they've had the car, so...we'll see if they step up to the plate or not.

Don't they have a dyno also?

-E

JoeD

the Apex RX6 is the quickest spooling single turbo setup out for the FD. it spools almost as quick as stock twins, due to its ball bearing construction.

jimlab

You've seen single blade 70mm throttle bodies for Civics. An LT1 throttle body is referred to by the size of each of its two blades...

rx7tt95

The Apexi RX6 kit IS a single turbo kit. The big difference between it and many of the common single kits is the full-cartridge ball bearing center section. The compressor isn't overly large either and both will allow you to reach full boost (say 10psi) by 3Krpm without problem. That's about 200rpm higher than a stock twin turbo system. My bolt-on modded engine makes significant, if not full boost, by 2.2-2.3K rpm.

What the single will give is more hp, significantly more torque, all at a LOWER boost level. The air isn't as hot, but the turbo IS pushing more CFM over the twins. A stock port engine is good for 360 to mid-380's with this turbo, good tuning and pump gas. Porting will help. This isn't a big hp turbo, but is more than capable of propelling a car into the high 10's with a supporting cast of boost, modifications and race fuel. It's great for roadracing too, although I'd swap out the crappy Apexi wastegate for a racing HKS. Honestly, you'll loose nothing over a set of twins. Further, you'll be able to remove the complicated set of hoses and solenoids which control the sequential system. The exhaust manifold is simplified reducing backpressure (reducing backpressure IS a reliability mod, LOL) which in turn lowers combustion temps and radiated heat into the engine bay. Boost creep won't be an issue as it is with the stock twins with a midpipe. Due to the internal wastegates (on the stock twins) not being large enough to bypass unecessary exhaust gasses, boost creep results, especially on the highway in lower gears and on LONG straightaways at top speed. My Power FC controls boost creep very well. The addition of an AVC-R does not do as good of a job unfortunately. I'm sure it'll work great with a single.

FWIW, my car is very reliable and I've not had a glitch whatsoever. The AVC-R caused a few problems and I recommend avoiding it with the sequential system. I'm pushing 340 to the rear wheels and I regularly participate in track events (although the car is currently in the shop getting, ahem, needed bodywork, sigh...). The only additions I plan on making in the very near future are the addition of larger oil coolers (I have a touring with only one oil cooler) and running pre-mix all the time despite the fact the stock OMP (oil metering pump) is working as factory. A tip from www.n-tech.net is to run Penzoil 2-stroke which you can purchase at Walmart for pennies compared to expensive motorcycle two-stroke oil or supposedly rotary-specific pre-mix sold by rotary shops.

Hope this helps a bit.

rx7tt95

Forgot to mention, the rx7store (Jason) probably carries this kit. SR Motorsports also sells it (for a bit more I believe) but they run the wastegate outlet back into the downpipe (a necessity for the street). www.overboost.com is running a special on this kit and I believe it's $3200 or so through them.

JoeD

oh...my bad.

Black680hp7

Here is all you need

The stock injectors are plenty sufficient. You need a GOOD intercooler, Full exhaust, intake, and a Programmable ECU such as the AEM Plug in unit. I have made over 430hp to the wheels reliably with stock injectors and a boost a pump, and pump gas. This was with a single turbo, but the stock twins should have absolutely no problem supporting 350 to the wheels. The key is the tuning if you want reliability. The AEM system maintains the knock control which is critical for longevity.

Jason.

JoeD

whos gonna be the first to throw down the BS FLAG on this one??

JoeD

HMM...lets see...the stock injectors see 100% duty cycle right around 14 PSI. i dont care if you were running an HKS T51R KAI, you are not gonna make more than 380 HP at 14 PSI. race fuel or not.

ill let someone else contunue this argument. this was only one point made by me. i have many others, but ill gove someone else a chance. in the mean time...the BS FLAG stays up!



your gonna have a hard time digging yourself outta this one. might as well admit that you were just kidding, so you dont continue to get bashed to hell.

have a nice day!

Black680hp7

Really, how many RX7's have you built? I really don't care what you believe. Do the math, you only need 270 lbs of fuel an hour to maintain an a/f ratio of 12 to 1 and create 450 hp at a BSFC number of .6 (well rich enough for the rotary). If memory serves correctly there is a total of 2800 cc's of fuel with the stock injectors which is 266.66 lbs of fuel/hour. I also don't care what duty cycle you think you are running, do you know what a/f you are running? All of this works together. Plain and simple I have done it several times. Believe what you want.

Jason.

rx7tt95

Black's calculations do seem correct Joe. Might want to lower the BS flag. Thing is, I did run approximately 90=91% duty cycle with mods up to a midpipe running an 11.8 a/f ratio across the board. It's very possible to run the injectors at 100% as they aren't the kind that go static, but I wouldn't call it a "wise" thing to do. Plenty have done it for YEARS without a mishap. Bump the fuel pressure a bit and it's possible to support much more hp. Actual spray pattern gets pretty bad at the higher psi ratings and you'll need a really solid in-tank pump. Again, not the ideal solution, but if it works.....I chose to go with 1300cc secondaries and the Walbro GSS-341 255lph high pressure version. The strongest of their 255lph pumps. Better safe than sorry, especially if you live up north where the temperature changes dramatically throughout the year. Here in Florida, it pretty much stays between 95 and 50 most of the year, with that occasional dip down into the 40's...we all break out our fur-lined parkas when that happens :-)

JoeD

oh c'mon...nobody has anything to say about this guy's single turbo, 430 RWHP car with stock injectors??

Black680hp7

Most people on this list know me, and know I don't lie.

I provided my proof, where is yours that it won't?

Jason.

enuttage

Well...for what it's worth, my O-ring is shot, so it's back to the drawing board...or at least the pocketbook. $3800 for a local install of a reman. I think I'll do it myself and get a Pettit or Pineapple rebuild.

Any thoughts on that?

-E

Black680hp7

How far are you from rotary performance, they do good work.

Jason

enuttage

Coupla hundred miles.

I probably won't get my rebuild there (I'm leaning toward Pettit), but there's a chance I may get tuned up there.

I'm still feeling out MZM down here in Austin. Waiting on an estimate for some work from them. They're the ones who diagnosed the O-ring.

-E

Black680hp7

Ari is a personal friend of mine, tell him I sent you, he'll take care of you. I also know he does excellent rebuild work. His engines hold up very well, even when thoroughly abused.

Jason.

enuttage

Jason,

PM'd you.

-E