peejay

My N/A has 190k and rolling, 200-250-300k on N/As is only uncommon because the chassis tend to rot out first, a problem with cars that are often driven only a handful of miles a year when new.

I've overheated my 12A quite a few times, certainly fewer times than the piston engines that I've turned to scrap metal.

Boost and nitrous make an engine no longer N/A, but for a counterpoint, the turbo engines have more internally in common with the N/A engines than not, certainly a lot more in common than turbo piston engines have with their naturally aspirated brethren.

LT-x7

I'm in california, no problem with rot out here only blown motors.
I've had a few friends that blew there 13b's the first time it overheated. No experience with overheating 12a's.
Any engine considered bulletproof should be able to take anything you can throw at it.
N/A rotarys=reliable-------- not with my experiences but maybe.
N/A rotarys=bulletproof----no way.

peejay

Probably '86-up engines where they break off a chunk of the side housing when they get overheated, leaving the coolant seal unsupported.

By that measure, no engine is bulletproof. You can break any engine just by grabbing the wrong gear at the wrong time, for example, or run it out of coolant or oil and drive at full power until the magic smoke comes out. (My favorite)

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I over heated my 20b to over 125C, for over 40 miles, running on water instead of oil, took it home let it cool down, fixed the freeze plug with the leak that caused it, fired it up and drove it all season going to 8,600rpms to the track, race for 4 hours, drive 6 hours back day in and out. A fucked up computer caused pre-ignition at 3,000rpms too, but it keep on running. In my book, that is pretty bullet-proof. Maybe you want me to drain the oil and water out and drive cross country with 38lbs of boost and clogged fuel filter? The V8's do that too? Give me a break.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

No, I dont brag about a low 12 second car, thats not very fast, its a road course car, thats what I built it for. Its just more fun to beat V8's with a crappy rotary, espically a crappy non-turbo rotary without any nOS.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Yeah the Mazda is built light we all know that! The 20B is not very expensive, esp. since the kit I sell takes all the hard work out of it, and retains factory handling. Any project car racks up mad money quick, thats the nature of building cars.

LT-x7

Ya that doesn't sound to bad, how many miles you got on that motor?
I've heard of luck like that with the na rotary. I just personaly don't know of anyone that's been that fortunate.

Whats the weight difference with the na 20b?

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

It has about 12,200 or somewhere close to that. The n/a 20b isnt too bad, engine-only was 255lbs. Dressed with the intake, exhaust, and fly it was 315lbs. The factory 20b stuff wasnt very good for weight, 52lbs stock intake alone was enough for me to ditch that ****. It is lighter now than it was with the factory twin turbo two-rotor. The whole car was 2620 last year, with a 130lb cage in it.

88IntegraLS

My integra was not a poser, it was stock and pretty ugly. As a foolish youth I attempted a cold air intake mod along with a short shifter, and all they did was make a slow car louder and harder to drive. Here is what became of it because some idiot driver like yourself didn't have enough experience to look more than 3 seconds up the road:







40+mph impact and I was first to get the hit. I couldn't even open the door the frame was so smashed. You should have seen the look on the guy's face as I crawled out the window, like he saw a ghost, lol.

Just goes to show, morons are capable of some serious destruction. It's fitting that you don't like V8 RX7s, all that power would get you killed.

txturbogs

I dare any rotard to ride on a decent powered LSX FD and say they suck and babble all the rotard BS they always say.

I owned a rotary and now own an LS1 FD and I just love it. The feel of instant acceleration without having to rev up to 6k rmps and dump the clutch is nice. Not having to worry about turbos, overheating, apex seals, etc, is a nice feeling.

Rotards are in denial, period. BTW, a rotard is whom preaches about the soul of the rx being the engine and stuff like that. I know there are some hardcore rotorheads here, the rotard comment is not inteded towards them.

rarson

There's just one problem with this whole thread: it's not just a "V8" forum, it's a forum for ALL engines that aren't rotary. So just because someone doesn't like V8's doesn't mean they "don't belong" here.

That said, I think it's pretty silly to like or hate an engine based solely on its basic design (ie 8 pistons vs. 2 rotors).

Ah, the DA Integra. That's a shame, they are pretty decent cars.

audiobot7

Rotary is unique! V8 sucks *****!

Merc63

You have ONE poster that does that, and you think al V8 guys start argumetns?

I built my V8 RX7 12 years ago, owned it for five years, have been posting on message boards for over a decade, and guess what? I've RARELY seen V8 guys "start arguments." In fact, I only know of two specific individuals who have done that, and even THEY only did it rarely, and those times were in response to a similar thread started to bash the V8s! I personally have NEVER done it.

Sorry, 99.9% of the insults and negative, nasty commentary is started and piled on by quasi-religious rotary zealots. That's a fact and any search of this or any other Mazda forum will corroborate that.

When you see V8 guys insulting rotary fans, it's usually in RESPONSE to a string of insults flung by said raotary fans all bent out of shape due to someone "desecrating" their religious idol.

clubber

[QUOTE=Juiceh]The Shelby Cobra is different because it was a piston engined car swapped with a larger piston engine. The Rotary fanatics love engine swaps as long as its the same type of engine.

I disagree that the shelby is different because it's just two different piston engines. I'm quite sure some devout british sports car fan, yes there are many, would talk about ruining the chassis balance and other such crap. I know when they came out with 240Z engine kits for Jensen Healey's that all the hardcores were bitching up a storm about putting a japanese engine in a sports car and how screwed up it would be. They are just like the wankle lovers, just a different car. All these types need to get over it.

P.S. I love my turbo rotary but I work on it ten times as much as the V-8, the gas mileage is worse and I worry every time it's due for an emissions check.

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

If this is the case, then how about sending me the money to buy a new motor, since mine destroyed itself with less than 80k miles on it. The rotor and housing certainly weren't bulletproof, as the apex seal that came apart certainly caused some extensive damage when it broke. I got about $87 for the leftover (undamaged) parts on eBay, so you can subtract that from the check you send me for the value of a "bulletproof N/A rotary"

Rhode_Dog

I wouldn't swap a corvette motor in a FD3S based purely on preference of sound. Strange as that may seem to some of you more "ellite" connoisseurs of engines, but I think an N/A 20B sounds worlds better than some lumpy v8

peejay

A matter of taste is something even close friends will disagree violently on. Engine sound is one of those things.

For instance, I think 20Bs are best seen and not heard, and are only slightly less annoying than an inline four-cylinder (but not by much). And the only thing that beats the thump of a huge-cammed 600+cid V8 with sewerpipes is the rap of a well ported 2-rotor...

V8Mongrel

Well said. I personally find the wail of a turbo five-cylinder strangely intoxicating. I have not met many who agree with me.

aussiesmg

iTrader: (1)

I own three running FBs with 134, 140 and 189K miles on them, all run great and all get 25 mpg. I drive about 1000 miles a week to deliver goods through NE Ohio, I have never been let down by the old 12as (Plural)

My old 13B BP in Australia was driven as a road and race car for 5 years, in autocrosses, HPDE, road racing, road rallies and even a few rallycrosses, it was run hard, and put away wet, won two state titles, entered probably 25 events per year, running stock seals.

When I sold it to move to USA it was still running great and strong.

Bulletproof, hell yeah.

I'm not anti V8 either.

rarson

I'm not convinced the rotary is developed enough to be a good, reliable way of making big hp numbers. Obviously there are people who have done it before, but for our street cars that get used and abused all the time, the big turbo rotary is hit-or-miss enough that I'd forego the hassle.

Now N/A rotaries, on the other hand, seemed to have pretty much proven their reliability and aside from the weight, I think a 13b puts out competitive numbers when compared to a naturally-aspirated 4-cylinder (the Renesis is even better).

My point is that I'm not really pro one or the other. The rotary is good for what it is, and I'm sure as **** glad that Mazda is still using them, because it needs the extra years of development that the piston engine has had.

I can really understand arguments (intelligent ones, that is) from both sides, and honestly there's not enough to either one to make me choose one way or the other. Thank God that there are people on both sides that are pushing the engines though because it would be boring as hell if we were all driving around with the same engines.

Nihilanthic

Just wanna throw this in here...

Do you know how many different ways you can tune the exact same engine?

The variances between the different rotaries or different piston motors are extreme... rotary/piston is a false duality.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

Sport Compact Car Magazine is doing an article comparing a 350rwhp FD against an LS1 powered FD and that should hopefully shed more light on this highly debated topic. They just tested the cars within the last week or two so the article should be out in 60-90 days.

After seeing my friends blow up multiple turbo 13B's and turbo 20B's I'm glad I went LS1. I have 20K miles on this combo and have simply changed the oil on it and cleaned the air filter. I'm actually running the same spark plugs I put it together with.

peejay

True, and *on the street*, I find that I can't even use my stockport 12A's full power potential unless I have maybe 600 pounds of steel stock under the hatch, and even then the opportunities are fleeting. (Makes handling "interesting" too )

When talking about street cars, ultimate performance potential is right out the window. It's almost so unimportant as to be a non-issue, since opportunities to *use* that potential are few and far between. Therefore it all boils down to driving characteristics, and how they mesh with what the driver desires.

DCrosby

I just wanted to say a couple of words,

I was a rotorhead, I bought anything and everything rotary, incl. models key chains etc... Heck I still have a bunch of parts in my closet / garage, but once my 3'rd motor went, and I've only owned a RX-7 since 2002, that's roughly .75 motors a year, even though they were not that evenly spaced out... the fact remained I wanted to be competitive on the street and the track, and not get challenged for a gap on the freeway, by a guy in an $80k+ Porches day in and day out. So the requirement to have it be fast, beautiful, and reliable were too much to ask of the 7 it seemed like I could have 2 / 3, and I want 3/3 and that required and engine swap.

Rotary soul or not, hp / vs weight whatever... it was the right decision for me, and I agonized over it for quite some time, it's been arduous, my car has been in the shop since Nov. and is still not done, due to complications. I still none the less feel it was the RIGHT decision for me.

Anybody who does things Rotary or Pistons, because someone "Told" them it was better is a FOOL ! YOU need to do things because they are right for YOU not for someone else that you're trying to impress / make happy / insert excuse here _____ ....

You'll never be truly happy if you let your friends make choices for you, and you will loose friends, due to that fact. Make up your own mind what's right for YOU and move on... Right or Wrong it was YOUR decision at the time, and you made it with the best set of information you had...

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

But if the best information you have comes from Doridori, would you feel like you had enough to make an intelligent decision, or do you think you may run into even more complications? Personally, I think some of the bullshit he puts out there is enough to make an RX7 owner want to sell their car and upgrade to a Yugo.