Nihilanthic

So, why not enligthen us on this rip-roaring ford motor?

Also, having seen how the center section of a C4 can be adopted to a T-II rear with new stub shafts and some cutting/welding done to the 'ears' for mounting it (misred I believe chose to add new mounts to bolt the wings on instead of flip them 90° to use the T-II's stock ones, but thats hardly a big deal) it really wouldnt be that hard to set that up for proper gearing.

I wonder how hard it'll be to get everyone on the same page for some GB's of modified rear covers and custom (or modified) stubshafts?

peejay

"Rip-roaring Ford motors" are a dime a dozen nowadays, like bridgeported rotaries.

The C4 is Ford's light duty 3-speed automatic, notable by having an aluminum bellhousing, tailhousing, and main case. More and more popular for drag racers nowadays. Are you suggesting mating a C4 to the differential in order to have a multi-speed diff?

Nihilanthic

1. I meant what build parts he used and how he got one for so cheap.

2. Corvette gen 4 rear end... http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6375 sorry for being unclear.

Though yeah, a multi speed rear end... lol.

wingsfan

Agreed. I don't think you need a big disclaimer to present one's opinions either. I find it rather redundant. They are what they are. Any info gleaned from a forum should be taken with a grain of salt.

wingsfan

Know anyone in Michigan?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/C-4-C...spagenameZWDVW

V8Mongrel

Well, the reason for the disclaimer is that there were not my opinions. I was passing on information from someone I know. The discalimer was mostly so that people didn't ask clarification questions and expect me to be able to answer them!

SoontobeLS1'd

My dad used to build those short-stroke SBCs and rev them up to 10k when he'd race. Of course, getting race gas was easy as pie in those days.

V8Mongrel

OK, but most of us recognize that race gas really isn't the critical issue here, so could you be so kind as to share what else was done and under what conditions those engines were run.

razorback

there is a race block, i forget the name of it, (something like an r3) by mopar that is used in nascar, that makes 850hp + on pumpgas with a redline of 9krpm. its based off of a 360 motor.

oh, and you for the bottom end your going to want a forged lightened crank, light pistons, and light rods. i am considering making my big block 383 into a high rpm motor. the heavy stock pistons/rods are a big factor setting it back.

SoontobeLS1'd

It was a 283 bored over to 301 short stroke. It was used for drag racing. Had a hot cam. It was used for drag racing. I'll have to talk more about it in detail with my dad next time I'm home.

GUITARJUNKIE28

turbo 383. 600+ whp @ 4500 rpm

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

Bah, you know what I was meaning though.

That said, you're exactly right. If he wants the RPM for shift point/gearing purposes, then by all means; if he wants it just to match a crazy spec'd cam, then he's wasting money.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

N/A 366 + direct port nitrous - 600+ RWHP @ 6000 RPM.

There are a lot of instances where a lot of different motors make sense, but the best way to choose your setup isn't to just pick the motor that sounds the best; A far better method is to choose your goals, estimate your maximum expenditures, skill level, and what compromises you're willing to make, THEN start basing your engine choice on that. This is assuming you're starting at point 0. If you have a 5.0 in your barn you want to put in your car stock, knock yourself out.

wingsfan

I knew what you meant, and if you'd have only mentioned it once...

Merc63

.030 over 302, 10.5:1 compression pistons, heavily ported '66 289 heads with Chevy 1.94/1.60 valves, performer rpm cam, perfromer 289 intake, 1" carb riser, stupid big (flowed to 850 cfm) Holley double pumper circle track carb, 1 58" equal length headers, swap meet BOSS 302 crank and rods. I paid my buddy $1k for the engine minus the carb and headers. It originally had a single plane high rise manifold and a 900 cfm carb in his drag car, where it regularly turned 8500 rpm. the dual plane and smaller carb wouldn't let it go much over 7500.


Which is why so many are done that way, now, right? Remember, I built mine back in '93. Think of costs and availability then... I don't see a lot of Corvette or Tbird diff swaps on TC...


if someoene could come up witha good, reproduceable, inexpensive rear swap, it's be great. But why not just talk to a gear maker and have proper gears made and added to their catalog? I'd love to see that.

Merc63

The easier way is to use the 327 and drop in the 283 crank. The 4" bore of the 327 and the 3" stroke of the 283 creates the 302 cid engine. Boring out the 283 to a 4" bore seems pointless. Those 283 cranks were actually VERY strong parts, and basically what was used in the DZ302.

Add nicely ported 202 heads, 12:1 compression pistons, a long overlap, high lift solid lifter cam (the long overlap reduces the mechanical compression at lower rpms by a bunch, which is how they live on pump gas), single plane intake and big carb, and you can twist a streetable 302 chevy to 9k on a regular basis. Oh, remember the good dual valve springs.

wingsfan

Jim looked into that for the FD prior to his Cobra IRS undertaking. The expense was astronomical. IIRC it was ~$3K for the first R&P to be cut, and several hundred for each subsequent set.

And just to add to the confusion you'd have to get the masses to agree on a ratio for a GB to happen. When Jim suggested it there were almost as many ratio requests as people responding.

Merc63

What I was think ing of was actually talking to one of the companies that already makes replacement gearsets for teh 7, and just adding a lower ratio or two to their catalog. it's not like they make a billion sets anyhow, so this market (which has expanded a hundredfold since I built my car 13 years ago) could take off IF the sets were available. A business case needs to be made up that they do the prototype cost then amortixze it over the run of parts, like every other parts manufacturer does it in the aftermarket regardless of type of product or size of market.

And I'm talking about companies the size of Mazdatrix or Racing Beat.

V8Mongrel

Do they actually make their own gearsets? I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that tooling for a helical gearset such as found in a differential is very expensive, thus limiting the number of people doing it to very few. While many sell the parts, I think that they are made mostly by the same people. Sort of like catalytic converters.

Merc63

Which would be even better. If one company is making all the Mazda racing gearsets that everyone sells, then having them tool up for a couple more ratios and sell them through all the major Mazda parts outlets would be even more economical. They simply need to be convinced that the market for them is as large as the market for a set of 4.88s for an RX3..

V8Mongrel

Ah, but you forget that the 4.88s currently offered may be from an OE manufacturer and was at one time an OE fitment for a certain car. I don't know, but there is a decent chance. 10,000 is a small run for some of the company's who make gear sets. Not trying to stomp on the idea, but just being realistic. My job has me in contact with lots of manufacturers, but they are all very large and thus my perspective is perhaps not the best on this issue.

Merc63

The point I'm making is that there are a lot of major players out there that make parts other than alocal machine shop (which is where Jim was going, IIRC). Maybe talk to Richmond Gear, that makes teh NASCAR stuff, and sets for many many classes (oftern where on ly a handful of cars compete with their products).

http://www.richmondgear.com/01ringandpinions.html

V8Mongrel

Maybe this guy?
http://www.housemanautosport.com/
Seems like he is more geared towards small runs and custom stuff.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Greatest piston engine ever made. Only pistons id ever put in a 7.

V8Mongrel

That's a whole 'nother thread!