THis may be a completely useless post, but I just felt like saying it. LOL!


I have been away from the boards for a long time (had a valve put in my heart) and in the last week or so been back to see whats going on. Of course, my 12A died right before my surgery (ignitors burned out when voltage reg crapped and power spiked the system) so haven't been driving the 7.

I have always planned on converting to a 350 since the first day I got the car. I already have a vortec 350. Just my health has put everything on hold for a while.

Now that I am healed again, I'm trying to get the little ******- I mean wankel running again just so I can drive it. Just miss driving the car, know what I mean?

But here is what I am posting about: It never fails to amaze me, that I see more and more die hard rotary guys and gals coming around to the v8 (or other swap) way of thinking. I think more and more are beginning to see that v8's, especially the aluminum block LSx motors are not ruining these cars like they so strongly argued before.

I have figured it out. There are those people who love rotary engines, as being unique engines, but have open minds and have no problem with a piston motor swap if their rotary dies, because they want to drive a GREAT car, for the sake of the car, not the motor.

Then their are those rotary lovers that are closed minded, and think that the rotary engine, no matter how bastardized they make it, is the soul of the car- that the rotary makes the car the great car it is and that without it, the car is just a piece of junk (that is what I have heard the die hards say about alot of swapped cars- Look at that junk, I wouldn't own it.) How sad it must be.

Let me tell you about my rotary experience. My 12A is completely stock. About every month or so (when it WAS running) I would have to fix something on it. I like the rotary engine, because it is unique. But unique does not make me happy if I have to fix something on it all the time, and it gets seriously lousy gas mileage and a diesel Rabbit can outrun it. Now before I get flamed, I take the time to make sure that it is maintained properly, tuned properly, etc. I have worn the SM out reading how to take care of it. There are good rotary guys close by I can call if I have a problem I cant figure out.

I am still going to do the swap, because I want to. (see, isn't that a simple reason? LOL) . I want to put the 12A into a little toyota carolla (late 70's) to make a great autocross car. I want a v8 rx7 daily driver, because that is what I like.

So if you are coming around, that is great. Explore the possibilities.

If you are diehard rotary who don't want to explore the possibilities, well, that is just fine for you.





Just don't cry when the v8 guys are beating you at the track. I wont cry if you beat me at the track. I like both engines, but I like v8s more.


Later,
Bill

 

I agree with you Bill. Ive owned many RX-7's and all always had some sort of issue about once a month or so. I really doubt you wont absolutely love the V8 in that first gem. I installed a LT-1 in mine. If you have any swap questions feel free to PM me. Best of luck.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I built my V8 RX7 back in '93, when it was about the only V8 FC built ( I know of a 5.0 powered FC convert built by Roger Liston in California from the same time period). After I put my car on the web in '95 or so, I got literally hundreds of requests for conversion plans packages, which i gave out for free, and was routinely insulted by rotary fans for years.

Now, I see a number of rotary fans that used to give me a hard time have come aorund, and now there are literally hundreds of these conversions running around. Unlike most, it's a very cost effective, and functional way to create a great car.

And yeah, something I've always asked the rotary fans who call the car junk, or "no beter than a Camaro or Mustang, was, "do you really think so little fo the car itself that you think it looks no better, is built no better, has similar ergonomics and functinality, than a domestic live axle muscle car or a cheap old fiberglass flexi Corvette?" That's sad.

Starting with a Camaro or Mustang, what do they think it would take to make the rest of the car OUTSIDE the engine to be the equivalent of the RX7? I've had a lot of rotary race cars and street cars. I've had numerous Mustangs of various eras (from old to newer), and I can guarantee that the V8 RX7 is a better car than either.

 

Cheap old fiberglass flexi Corvette... Sarcasm and emotions are hard to read on the net, but were those words meant as an insult to how corvettes are constructed?

 

Ever look closely at a C4 Corvette (the only Corvette anywhere near the price range of my V8 RX7)? Definitely flexi flyer. The build quality is nowhere near that of an FC or FD RX7, neither is chassis stiffness or ergonomics.

 

My dad has 4 C4's. I'm not a fan of their interior(hurts my back big time in the 80's versions), but on the corvette forums the C4 is a very popular track vehicle.

 

Cars are all about comprimise,each model has its weak points. Personally Ive always liked corvettes. But Im sure theres many guys here who only like RX-7's. As far as sports cars go theres not many I dont like....just some are better than others. Always loved the old Triumph Spitfires..hope to find a clean one and drop a FI V8 in it someday. But thats what I like...Im sure someone else may not. I think Merc63 is right tho...its hard to find a small rear wheel drive in the RX-7's price range thats better IMHO.

 

That's 'cause it's comparatively cheap. Easy to find a C4 and gut it and go racing. And of course, gutting it and going racing gets rid of any concern over build quality and street car ergonomics, which changes the equation entirely.

For me, I HAD the RX7 as an autocrosser and street car when the rotary died. I had already had numerous rotary autocrossers and street cars, as well as numerous piston engine race cars and street cars. I simply wanted to turn my dead RX7 into something fun and unique, for not a lot of money. In my case, there wasn't a single other car that would have been a better choice to build from, as I didn't have to go out and buy the car itself. the idea was specifically to make a grunty V8 powered sports GT that handled as good as it had when still rotary powered. I wanted the best of all worlds, style, speed, cost... I think I achieved that, as have most V8 RX7 owners (jimlab may have removed cost from that particular equation...)


I wish I still had that car.

 

Not many people gut out Corvettes. Even c4's. You're mistaking Corvette enthusiasts with the import crowd. Again, the C4 is a popular track vehicle not just because of price, but because of balance, decent suspension stock, decent power, and good reliability(so it won't keep breaking down like alot of FD's 13B's). You're dancing around my points, and I have to laugh at it.

Sure a stock C4 isn't going to beat an FC with an LT1 in it. You're talking about buying an FC for 500-1k dollars, and dropping a 2k motor in it. You can buy a C4 for about 4-6k stock and already be behind. However, for someone who doesn't want to partake an engine swap, the C4 would be a good option for them as it's already built to compete somewhat well and you can enter it in the stock class, which you cannot do with a V8 RX-7(you have to go into a special class altogether).

Personally I'm not raising one over the other as they both have their advantages. But for you to make false accusations about the Corvette's performance, burns me as it's obvious you don't have any experience in owning them, driving them, or being around them.

 

Your points are that a car with worse flexibility, slightly higher price, etc has a larger following, therefore it invalidates building V8 RX7s. Just becaeu a crowd of people love Corvettes doen't mean it's a better choice for people NOT of that crowd, any more than the fact that a crpoowsd of people likes the RX7 better makes it the better choice for anyone outside THAT crowd.

I'm happy that a bunch of people love to track the Corvette for al those reasons. A large crowd of people love to track Civics for similar reasons. Will you advocate buying a Civic over a Corvette using your own logic?

How many of those people looked at the cars objectively, from outside the Corvette world, and said "hmm, those cars are better than all other options including modding other cars?" and how many were already Corvette fans that wouldn't have even CONSIDERED another car, or people that didn't have much experience with anything and simply went with something someone like you tells them?

Where has anyone made a requirement that a car be a stock class racer to be a valid car?

And yes, for someone who doens' rtwant to partake in an engine swap, or doesnt' have the skill, then ANY car that ahs what they want in stock form is better. that's a given regardless of what kinds of cars we are discussing, from kit cars to hot rods, to formula cars! And that STILL does not invalidate the reasons to build cars like mine if you DO have the skill and the desire to.



What "false accusations" about the Corvettes performance have I made? The chassis ARE flexible, and has been one of the main faults of the C4 (and the worse C3) recognized by professionals and industry experts for decades. Compare a 100k mile Fc and any C4 corvette, and the Corvette will have more rattles and cowl shake right out of the box. The body is not a stressed member as much as the steel body of the RX7, and the total rigidity is much lower. That's not a false accusation. They HAVE worse ergonomics and build quality, again, a long known fact. yes, they are fairly fast, stock (depending on year) and can be made faster. But I'm sorry, the C4 does not have the attributes that the RX7 has, and teh Camaro/Firebird and Mustang do not, either.

And regardless, you dance around another point. For many of us, the RX7 simply LOOKS better. that's not a false accusation, any more than saying for some people the Corvette LOOKS better than an RX7.

BTW, I'm 43, I've been building race cars, hot rods, etc for almost 30 years, been an SCCA mamber nearly that long, including being an SCCA and BSCCV driving instructor. I've owned over a hundred cars from most major manufacturers (including some Corvettes) worked on hundreds more, and driven Corvettes, Porsches, Mazdas, and hundreds of others on the track, both road course and autocross. I do have a bit of experience in this. this is not to insult the Corvette, but to point out that just because it had a V8 stock, and some people you know race them and love them, that that means it is automatically better than a V8 RX7 for someone who built a V8 RX7. I've driven them on the street and on the track. I'm pointing out from back to back comparisons where the V8 RX7 has advantages.

 

I'm neither of those guys and I still love the rotary. I'm an engineer and see beyond the uniqueness, I see potential. I like the LSx as well, and have seen what it is fully capable of - all motor and turbo, in first person, every day at my job. Great engines. However, I see great potential in the rotary, and devote my time exploring ways to extract that potential.

Hope you have fun with your V8 FB, it will be fast. Don't hurt your heart again

 

I respect that. I have no problem with people like you who are "pasionate" about something, but not criticle about something different. I am first a motorhead, and that means any kind of motor. I like stuff that is different. I like being different than the norm (hence the v8 in the 7)
And most of all, I like seeing what people do to get power out of thier cars, and the mods that they do. I learn alot from just seeing what people do, no matter what kind of engine, drive train, chassis setup they use.

I just find it amuzing that some nay sayers end up being yay sayers. But then, everyone can change their mind about how they think about things.


Thank you. They said that my valve was a mix of composit plastic and titanium and that "No they can not plumb in Nitrous lines."

 

You are funny. Nice high performance heart valve!

 

is it a titanium valve?

 

I really wonder why domestic companies make great drivetrains.... but use 'rubbermaid' interior design and flexible unibodies all the time. And squishy handling.

Its just so... generic, or dumbed down or 'watered down'. Ugh.

I feel a beer rant coming on but its probably my pissy mood, so I'll digress.... but I will make one more point.

If I find a cheap C4 Id most definitely gut it, cage it (no more rattles, yay!) and get a race seat and a steering wheel spacer so I can fix the ergonomics..

 

Hey All,

Well I have both an 86 Vette Vert (L98) and an 89 FC Vert (LT1), both manual shift.

The Corvette although it looks really nice from the outside has to be the MOST uncorfortable car I have ever driven. As someone said above it KILLS your back, even on a short drive.

The Vette is Bone Stock, and has tons of torque and HP, but not as much as the 7.

I'd rather have the 7 its more comfortable to drive!

 

I think part of it is because Americans in general don't know any better. They don't know how much fun it is to drive a car that is responsive on the road, one that's interior is easily positioned so you can reach everything without difficulty, and also is aggressive in styling. At least for those that are hung up on "buy american no matter what". Trust me, it's a question that's been bugging me for years.

89Vert: That would be me that made the comment about my back. As I said earlier my dad has an 85, 86, 88, and 96 Corvette and even the 96 is very unkind to my back. Where as my 01' C5 is an absolute joy on it. Took them long enough to get something right.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem with capitalism is the consumer, just like the problem with democratsy is the citizen.

"Budmilloors" are the result of people who just get used to generic, watered down, crappy beer. Now we have tons of great brew in the USA, but its either micros, Sam Adams, or imports. You try to go after good stuff or call something thats generic what it is, youre a beer ****, or a snob.

You try to point out the inadequatsies with our cars, becuase the good ones are kitcars, or imports, youre a 'domsetic hater'. My body (long arms/legs) means Id do well to get a steering wheel spacer in most cars, but ergonomics is still usually a lot better in imports than in domestics I drive... which is funny because theyre generally made for SMALLER DRIVERS.

Ill agree 'vettes are generally better than a lot of the 'big three' offerings here, but IMHO the biggest prob with them is either just preferential, in that we dont mind vinyl and such... and the image it has to get over. Well, that and idiots who think that a double wishbone suspension is 'as old tech as an oxecart' (actual snobbery) because it utilizes TRANSVERSE leafsprings... or something.