engineno9

Thanks! I don't know if I'll be doing a lot of the work myself, I wouldn't know what I'm doing.. what kind of knowledge would one need? With aMy buddy just finished his first year in auto. mech. and a few other guys who know quite a bit but I don't think I know anyone who's ever done a swap before.

DCrosby

I love how you seem to find time to **** on other people's opinions.

Let me reciprocate,

Not everybody has an LSx FD & a new Corvette either... and not everybody pays the same for "X" I pay substantially less for Home Entertainment Gear, why ? I Work for a company that has a consumer electronics branch... So Hookups, and deals through your local junkyard shouldn't be factored here...

Everybody's mileage will vary, due to taste, some people prefer new parts, others used, and some people have no problem buying a blown LSx and rebuilding it to save some $$.

Bottom Line is it's expensive, and parts wise can be as little as free if you have the right hookup, and can cost you an arm and a leg if you decide to buy brand new crate LS7 & T56, get a cobra rear end, and have everything done by a shop.

Even though I think the figures mentioned are on the high side, but by far not beyond the realm of possibility.

Hinson's and Granny's sites both have a pretty good breakdown of what stuff costs.

[End pissing]

wingsfan

That's why you see so many of them running around right?

wingsfan

That search button would answer your question. How much a conversion costs has to be one of the most frequently asked and answered.

wingsfan

He's hardly pissing on anyone's opinion. He merely pointed out that a simple LS1 swap wasn't going to run you anywhere near $15K. You'd have to venture out into stroker motor or ls7 crate motor land before you'd run into that kind of expense.


Even buying a crate motor you wouldn't hit $15K.

And none of those "upgrades" would fall under a "simple" conversion.

engineno9

Sorry, most forums I've used don't have a search feature. I'll keep in mind for next time.

wingsfan

Try here too

http://www.torquecentral.com/forumdi...aysprune=&f=11

The whole subforum is devoted to swaps with a lot of swap specific information available. The LS1 swaps are easily the most popular too.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

SwapCarTech.com

That's another forum with a good bit of info on the swap stuff. Not as replete with existing information as TorqueCentral, but it's got a lot of the more experienced guys on it as well.

DCrosby

We're not talking about buying crate motors, we're talking about doing a conversion, and who said it was simple ? It's not insane, but not something you'd want to try for kicks, after building plastic model kits....

I'm stating and have before, that these projects, run you more than just the block, tranny, and the sub frame. Because you inevitably get caught up in the "While you're at it disease" these cars are no longer spring chickens, and usually have been used / abused if the motor is out / blown and you're buying it as a roller...

Not to mention fuel systems, hydraulics, coolant, and exhaust that needs to be built around the motor of your choosing. None of which are outrageous, but do add up.

These conversions are not cheap alternatives to a rebuild, it takes some commitment, time, and $$ to get all the parts and do it right. People who state that the swap was done in a weekend for $2K are not telling the whole story...

After all you're ending up with a car that has the power to weight ratio that is not to be had for less than $60K (I'm thinking Z06, Porsche GT3 etc...).

I guess I feel somewhat mislead by people posting when I was asking questions as to How Long, and How Much? And I think some people do get their ducks in a row, get all the parts, and do a swap in two weekends. But they typically also don't consider it "Done" and have a lot of little things that need to get worked out, from reverse lights, to AC and on and on.... The norm is much longer/more expensive than two weeks, and $2000 + Motor/Trans...

Be warned!

-DC

wingsfan

No they aren't. But that wasn't the point that was being contested either. The point was that they don't cost $15K. Most people agree that it costs about $8k-$10K. That's a viable alternative to a single turbo conversion IMHO.

My conversion was slightly more than that, but I did coilovers and new wheels/tires at the same time.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

This is true of any modded car though. I've got a GTP sitting in the driveway, original engine, original transmission. I've got a list a mile long of stuff that needs done on it, at least as long as the list for my FC and it doesn't even have an engine in it currently.

If you work on any car for two weekends and consider it done, you're either running a demolition derby or you're not truly a "car guy". Jim's car may be done when he finishes putting it together, but that's 5-6 years of labor and ideas put into it. Even then, I'd bet he spends some more time tweaking things after that. Cars are an evolving process as the owner tries to best suit them to their own individual wants and needs.

Damn, that was much longer then necessary, ah well.

DCrosby

I wish people wouldn't mislead desperate rotary owners that need to get out of a bad situation into a false sense of hope, $8-10K will cover you on parts, for the most part, unless you start going crazy and start adding headers, and a cam etc... but like anything as you work you find stuff that needs replacing, and I'm trying to prepare people who ask innocent enough questions like how much for that LS1 deal you have !? And get real world answers not like you can do it for $5k....
I wish people would speak from experience or shut up about it already, and if you built an LS1 FD for $5k congrats, please tell us how you did it, since I can't seem to find all the hardware for that much...

Since I stated that I'd like to have people speak from experience, I'd like to start.

My setup (still not done) 10 Mo. later.... cost me about 11K for:
2002 LS1 With T56 and 23K mi on the clock, checked and guaranteed to run.
Aftermarket Cam & Springs (Installed)
Hinson Lontube Headers.
Hinson Subframe, and all the pieces for Hydraulics, Battery, Radiator, CAI to do the install

That's it, call me crazy, call me foolish, whatever, that's what I got for about $11k
That's without $.01 of labor or some of the "Bumps" in the road, Lost ECU and Harness Cough,Cough, broken AC Compressor Plug etc ...etc.......

That's a REAL figure, for a real car being built in 2006.

-DC

SoontobeLS1'd

Dcrosby makes a great, and sometimes forgotten, point. It is definitely not as easy as some people say for the most part. It isn't that it is difficult swap, requiring excellent fabrication skills; it is time-consuming, and will nickle-and-dime you to death. People also tend to see the other parts of the vehicle that need attention, especially when they will be putting out the kind of power that comes out of it.

Right now, after a year, I have about $6400 invested. That is not including tools and chemicals I had to buy. It does include most labor. I still have to get everything for the LS1, have it balanced, rebuild it, driveshaft, fuel system, cooling, wiring...I'm expecting a little over another year to go. I have a slow flow of cash and am very busy during school. it will be worth the wait.

wptrx7

Can you break down the cost of each, I don't see how that adds up. But you are right, that thing will add up quick and the fact that the cars are older, they may require parts you may not notice unless you remove the engine and at that poin you might as well fix what needs to be fixed before it comes back and bites you in the butt.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

Last I checked, Drew and I have both built/helped build LS1 FDs. I've also worked on (or completely done myself) 6 FC swaps aside from that, and I'm pretty damn sure Drew has crossed paths with several swaps outside of his own. I've also seen every cent detailed on cost on the FD and 5 of the 6 FC swaps, we're talking down to 40 cent rubber washers.

Drew and I are both saying 8-10K, which is damn accurate and even accounts for several mods at the same time as the installation. I'm not seeing these 2K and 5K quotes that you keep referencing. If you can't get it done for 8-10K dollars, you either need to start shopping more intelligently (forums/Ebay/Summit) or start doing more labor yourself. It's not a cheap job, but it's not THAT expensive either.

wingsfan

Who's misleading people? My swap cost me ~$12,600 and took me 4 months start to finish, with a 3 week trip to Australia wedged in for good measure. I worked on it a couple hours each day, and 5-6 hours a day on the weekends. Usually a friend and I would tackle a complete "system" each weekend, and I'd spend the next week smoothing over the rought edges. I had plenty of downtime while I was waiting on a part or two to get delivered.

That $12.6K included the $1200 I dropped on tools I didn't have, and the ~$4000 I put into the wheels/suspension at the same time (JIC FLT A2 and SSR Comps with Nitto 555RII 275/40/17). It doesn't include the $1200 I recovered for my 13brew and 5 speed transmission.

Please. If someone manages to get themselves into a bad situation with their car, it's hardly the community's responsibility to steer them out of it.

Everyone always throws in the stipulation that for that cost you need to turn your own wrenches. Paying for labor obviously escalates the price.

And if you're dumb enough to start a major project like a drivetrain swap scraping by with barely enough finances to complete it, then you deserve the resulting clusterfuck you have on your hands when something goes wrong.

Real world like the $15K quoted earlier?

We are. Or at least, Joey and I were.

All Hinson parts? (I assume) There's where the budget gets killed. They're pricey for what they are. His "systems" weren't available when I built my car, so I was forced to make my own...for much less. Spend some time with Summit Racing, Baker Precision, Jegs, or any other parts vendor's website and figure out what you need to piece things together. $300 CAI, $400+ harness mod, $650+ fuel system, $650+ cooling system? Rebadging a Dakota Digital SGI5 with a Hinson part number...HSCSGI5 as though he were a brick and mortar with parts sitting around on the shelf? Give me a break.

And you have ~$1800 in performance upgrades. Sounds to me that you're right back into that $8k-$10k window that everyone quotes without those.

pianoprodigy

My build is hardly a "budget" setup. However, you should keep in mind that many get a pretty good chunk of change selling their rotary parts. It IS possible to do the swap for $5k out of pocket assuming your rotary-powered FD had a bunch of upgrades to sell off. I made $6500 on selling my rotary stuff and I still have a few more things to sell.

wingsfan

But mine was in 2003, so with inflation...

I used to have a spreadsheet that listed all of my costs, including things like electrical tape and rubber washers posted at TC. Of course, it was lost in the big hissy fit of '05.

That's the kicker there. Most of the new swappers I see want a bolt in solution with off the shelf parts. People that fall into that category either need to learn how to do **** themselves, or suck it up and pay the premium.

wingsfan

Right. But those rotary goodies weren't free. You paid for them at some point.

pianoprodigy

Oh yes, I did. Here's a break-down on the parts for my car. I have most of them.

Sell FD Parts $6,500
LS1 -$2,547
T56 -$1,807
ETP 215s (A&A) -$2,612
Cam -$430
Twinscrew stuff -$463
Mounting (H) -$1,565
Cooling (H) -$630
Fuel (Dewain) -$100
Hydraulics (H) -$165
Wiring (H) -$425
Speedo (H) -$80
Headers (JTR) -$800
CAI (JTR) -$80
42 lb Injectors (FS) -$307
BFG Drags (TR) -$450
300M Axles (Jodeny) -$540
FAST 90 (online) -$750
Holley 90mm TB -$400
Drag Tire Kit
Interceptor Gauges -$250
Pettit Pod -$120
Torco
ARP Head Studs (TS) -$230
Cometic .040 (TS?) -$120
Powerbond UD (TS) -$240
Exhaust Fabrication -$1,000
Fidanza Flywheel (TS) -$320
Cost of Parts -$16,432

wingsfan

Twinscrew?

pianoprodigy

lol, not like a supercharger. That is my buddy Jon's username on a forum. He works for a Chevy dealer and gets me a killer deal on OEM GM parts.

However, I do plan on adding a 2.6 KB and a forged motor down the road providing that AcademyTim's new hood will fit the KB.

wingsfan

Gotcha. Twinscrew and FAST 90 didn't compute.

Seems like a popular plan. I'll be content with my "litttle" LS7 though.

pianoprodigy

LOL, might be tough. With the new L92 blocks, I'm going to do a 427 just so I can have the license plate RX427.

wingsfan

I briefly thought of going 454 before I settled on a "vanilla" LS7 with some mildly ported heads and a cam. No vanity plate for me though.