Anti-LS1 thread
08-10-09, 04:40 PM
#26
Frijolee does point out those points in hindsight threads here and on the "other" forum. Yes his motor went south, but it was under GRUELING conditions, with an oiling system that simply wasn't adequate for the G forces the car was pulling on the track. Whenever you stretch any vehicle beyond "normal" conditions, you have to accommodate for those harsh environments you toss them in.
08-10-09, 06:13 PM
#28
I feel it does de-soul the car but thats my Elbow= My opinion. We had a guy come to one of our Vegas Rotary meets with a LS1 swap in a FD with a supercharger. It was coo for him but not for me, Alot of people was on his nuts cause of the swap, I cant hate the car, cause of the engine!!! If Mazda made a V8 I would be all for it. One of the other members in the Club has a V8 in his FC I dont hate that he did it to his car. I just aint me, You like it, I love it, But it dont mean I have to ride in it. I love my RX7 cause of the Rotary but if I had to swap It would stay rotary cause thats what it was made with a Mazda engine... If I had a 240z or 240sx chassis I would swap!!! It would be either SR,RB,VQ or put the 5.7 v8 from the Titan. All because it was a Nissan engine but thats my elbow=my Opinion!!!
08-11-09, 07:58 AM
#29
Ok I am going to chime in on this one. I hang around a bunch of big balled rotary guys and drive all the nutiest cars around here when I get the chance or at least go for a ride.
My buddy Phil has a BP 13b rew in his FD and builds motors for fun. Allan has a 13b re in his fc making similar power. My buddy Dan has a 20b supercharged fc and a 20b fd. I love these cars to death and I currently have 4 fc's in my driveway including a t2. I love rotary engines to death and the turbo is fun. They have a great character to them and you learn to love the headache. There is seriously some sort of logic rotorheads miss but we love what we have and what we do, it is an obsession and I will never give them up.
On the flipside I just happen to have an ls1 out of an 01 trans am ws6 that is most definitely going into my beast baby vert FC. In the end the expense is much less, more power, more reliable, better mileage and total cost to own and operate the vehicle is much less.
If you want a 400hp boosted rotary forget daily driving. Im sure there are people that do it, but nobody I know does. These are their toy cars. It is also MUCH less of a headache. You get in it, start it, go.
You don't have to sit there and look at your AFR's, too rich, tune it down, it's too hot, turn the boost down, did I run premix? Holy **** do not step on that cable in the floor board or you disconnect the standalone, what is that smell? Why is is idling like that?
I mean these things can be fun but you can have the same power, less headache with an LS1 swap. Bottom line, end of story, and less expensive. Is it the same? No, never will be and that is will I will be building a milder turbo car when I am done with this.
My buddy Phil has a BP 13b rew in his FD and builds motors for fun. Allan has a 13b re in his fc making similar power. My buddy Dan has a 20b supercharged fc and a 20b fd. I love these cars to death and I currently have 4 fc's in my driveway including a t2. I love rotary engines to death and the turbo is fun. They have a great character to them and you learn to love the headache. There is seriously some sort of logic rotorheads miss but we love what we have and what we do, it is an obsession and I will never give them up.
On the flipside I just happen to have an ls1 out of an 01 trans am ws6 that is most definitely going into my beast baby vert FC. In the end the expense is much less, more power, more reliable, better mileage and total cost to own and operate the vehicle is much less.
If you want a 400hp boosted rotary forget daily driving. Im sure there are people that do it, but nobody I know does. These are their toy cars. It is also MUCH less of a headache. You get in it, start it, go.
You don't have to sit there and look at your AFR's, too rich, tune it down, it's too hot, turn the boost down, did I run premix? Holy **** do not step on that cable in the floor board or you disconnect the standalone, what is that smell? Why is is idling like that?
I mean these things can be fun but you can have the same power, less headache with an LS1 swap. Bottom line, end of story, and less expensive. Is it the same? No, never will be and that is will I will be building a milder turbo car when I am done with this.
08-11-09, 09:01 AM
#30
Jokingly? I hope so. If not, that is defintely not cool. Makes us all look bad.
I have a rotary FD. I hope to get another one with an LS1. If someone can't respect another man's choice of engine, then there is something wrong here (not referring to you DeMoe).
I have a rotary FD. I hope to get another one with an LS1. If someone can't respect another man's choice of engine, then there is something wrong here (not referring to you DeMoe).
08-12-09, 10:24 AM
#31
I personally like the guys car but didnt like the fact of him spinnin tires in 4th on the freeway and I'm gettin chunks of tire in my vert while drivin. It was a hell of a machine though.It would have been great if it had a Mazda V8 in it... Thats all I was sayin
08-12-09, 08:32 PM
#32
the implications matter
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Thought I'd chime in seeing as apparently I'm the poster child for the ls1 that done blowed up.
To answer the OP's question: The LS1 in an RX7 is a potent combo, I don't think there's any denying that anymore and most myths about jacked up weight distribution and poor handling have been pretty well banished. (Note that there a plenty of other potent combos out there but this is definitely one.) The trick is that in this case many of the folks who have done the swap are now such true believers that than can't keep their mouths shut about the benefits of the swap and it annoys the hell out of those who prefer not to. Other than some slight over generalizations that's the only thing BossCobra did wrong and look where this went!
As to the other points of discussion in this thread:
To some folks it's important to preserve the "soul" of the rotary. No one can tell you where to stand on this, but it didn't matter at all to me and clearly does to others. My only issue is when other folks tell me where I SHOULD stand on this. <-- That I don't take so kindly to. No modded car is as the factory intended so get over it.
Rotary folks get defensive when someone claims the v8 is more reliable. Now Robert's my homie and I love him to pieces, but I can't say I fullly agree on the two motors reliability being 100% equal (dispite having blown a v8 and never having lost a rotary). Like most things my answer is that "it depends..." On the one hand, both motors can blow up through no fault of the owner from relatively simple mistakes. Niether motor should make 150k miles if it's being used hard. On the other, a lot of the time when a rotary does let go no one really knows why... Being an engineer that bugs the hell outta me. I owned a strung out rotary FD but never drove it hard because I simply never really trusted it. Sure if you overheat one it's done that's obvious, but I have no idea how to prevent a coolant seal failure, what all could create detonation, what all could cause a tune to slide off it's settings etc. Rotaries might have few moving parts but in general I'd argue they have more system failures that can get you in big trouble than a v8.
This is not to say that a rotary can't be relatively reliable in the right hands. Robert has a bad *** car that treats him well. He also runs a wide band 02 sensor front and center so he can keep an eye on his tuning at all times. But guess, what... I keep an oil pressure gauge front and center on mine. Who's motor will last longer? I have no idea and in that regard we may very well have equal reliability. At the end of the day any vehicle you're going to use like a toy you have to be prepared to lose like a toy.
There is no perfect car, just an ideal set of compromises for the individual making it their own.
-Joel
To answer the OP's question: The LS1 in an RX7 is a potent combo, I don't think there's any denying that anymore and most myths about jacked up weight distribution and poor handling have been pretty well banished. (Note that there a plenty of other potent combos out there but this is definitely one.) The trick is that in this case many of the folks who have done the swap are now such true believers that than can't keep their mouths shut about the benefits of the swap and it annoys the hell out of those who prefer not to. Other than some slight over generalizations that's the only thing BossCobra did wrong and look where this went!
As to the other points of discussion in this thread:
To some folks it's important to preserve the "soul" of the rotary. No one can tell you where to stand on this, but it didn't matter at all to me and clearly does to others. My only issue is when other folks tell me where I SHOULD stand on this. <-- That I don't take so kindly to. No modded car is as the factory intended so get over it.
Rotary folks get defensive when someone claims the v8 is more reliable. Now Robert's my homie and I love him to pieces, but I can't say I fullly agree on the two motors reliability being 100% equal (dispite having blown a v8 and never having lost a rotary). Like most things my answer is that "it depends..." On the one hand, both motors can blow up through no fault of the owner from relatively simple mistakes. Niether motor should make 150k miles if it's being used hard. On the other, a lot of the time when a rotary does let go no one really knows why... Being an engineer that bugs the hell outta me. I owned a strung out rotary FD but never drove it hard because I simply never really trusted it. Sure if you overheat one it's done that's obvious, but I have no idea how to prevent a coolant seal failure, what all could create detonation, what all could cause a tune to slide off it's settings etc. Rotaries might have few moving parts but in general I'd argue they have more system failures that can get you in big trouble than a v8.
This is not to say that a rotary can't be relatively reliable in the right hands. Robert has a bad *** car that treats him well. He also runs a wide band 02 sensor front and center so he can keep an eye on his tuning at all times. But guess, what... I keep an oil pressure gauge front and center on mine. Who's motor will last longer? I have no idea and in that regard we may very well have equal reliability. At the end of the day any vehicle you're going to use like a toy you have to be prepared to lose like a toy.
There is no perfect car, just an ideal set of compromises for the individual making it their own.
-Joel
08-13-09, 01:13 AM
#33
This thread fails.......
I'm not going ls1.
Why?
Because i love the sound of toyota I-6 motors better....... I'll deal with turbo issues, etc, etc, etc..... My heart is already set on doing it.
1. It will **** of the rotards.
2. It will **** of jdm hype beast purists....
3. JZ motors are WIN.
I'm not going ls1.
Why?
Because i love the sound of toyota I-6 motors better....... I'll deal with turbo issues, etc, etc, etc..... My heart is already set on doing it.
1. It will **** of the rotards.
2. It will **** of jdm hype beast purists....
3. JZ motors are WIN.
08-13-09, 01:28 AM
#34
This thread fails.......
I'm not going ls1.
Why?
Because i love the sound of toyota I-6 motors better....... I'll deal with turbo issues, etc, etc, etc..... My heart is already set on doing it.
1. It will **** of the rotards.
2. It will **** of jdm hype beast purists....
3. JZ motors are WIN.
I'm not going ls1.
Why?
Because i love the sound of toyota I-6 motors better....... I'll deal with turbo issues, etc, etc, etc..... My heart is already set on doing it.
1. It will **** of the rotards.
2. It will **** of jdm hype beast purists....
3. JZ motors are WIN.
08-13-09, 11:53 PM
#35
Nah. I'll leave it.
More fuel to the e-tard fire......
This thread needs to be locked.
It's a shitty ongoing argument that everyone seems to want to partake in.
If your name is on the title, DO WHATEVER THE **** YOU WANT TO YOUR CAR. IT"S YOUR ****! **** what anyone else thinks.....
More fuel to the e-tard fire......
This thread needs to be locked.
It's a shitty ongoing argument that everyone seems to want to partake in.
If your name is on the title, DO WHATEVER THE **** YOU WANT TO YOUR CAR. IT"S YOUR ****! **** what anyone else thinks.....
08-14-09, 12:48 AM
#36
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Just to put my 2 cents in, ANY modded engine will fail miserably without a good tune. That, in my
opinion, is one of the biggest reasons for destroyed motors (maintenance being the second.) If you build it right, and tune it right,
there's no reason you couldn't make a reliable 300+ hp rotary.
And guess what? People have! lol
Although there is a limit. You cant build some 1000HP car and expect it to run some 100K, i dont care what engine it is or how well it was built. (key word being EXPECT.)
And i may be slightly intoxicated so flamers, be easy...lol
Edit: Ive seen a rotary go for damn near ever, and ive seen em pop. Same goes with any piston engine, anywhere from a honda four banger to a v8. Ive seen keep goin and goin and goin, without issues. And ive seen them destroy themselves. **** happens.
But you cant just blame it on the concept of the engine.
I guess thats my big point right thur lol
opinion, is one of the biggest reasons for destroyed motors (maintenance being the second.) If you build it right, and tune it right,
there's no reason you couldn't make a reliable 300+ hp rotary.
And guess what? People have! lol
Although there is a limit. You cant build some 1000HP car and expect it to run some 100K, i dont care what engine it is or how well it was built. (key word being EXPECT.)
And i may be slightly intoxicated so flamers, be easy...lol
Edit: Ive seen a rotary go for damn near ever, and ive seen em pop. Same goes with any piston engine, anywhere from a honda four banger to a v8. Ive seen keep goin and goin and goin, without issues. And ive seen them destroy themselves. **** happens.
But you cant just blame it on the concept of the engine.
I guess thats my big point right thur lol
Last edited by MirageStarz91; 08-14-09 at 12:54 AM.
08-14-09, 10:06 AM
#37
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For everyone posting that the rotary is just as reliable/etc as a v8:
I have a 3rd gen. I want 400hp/400ftlbs and near 30mpg. I want all this and to do just regular maintenance (oil changes, occasional tune up). It has to pass CA smog and do this for at least 150K miles as a daily driver.
How do I do this with the current rotary? Please give examples of 3rd gens that are currently on the road that meet all these criteria.
I have a 3rd gen. I want 400hp/400ftlbs and near 30mpg. I want all this and to do just regular maintenance (oil changes, occasional tune up). It has to pass CA smog and do this for at least 150K miles as a daily driver.
How do I do this with the current rotary? Please give examples of 3rd gens that are currently on the road that meet all these criteria.
08-22-09, 01:28 AM
#42
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For everyone posting that the rotary is just as reliable/etc as a v8:
I have a 3rd gen. I want 400hp/400ftlbs and near 30mpg. I want all this and to do just regular maintenance (oil changes, occasional tune up). It has to pass CA smog and do this for at least 150K miles as a daily driver.
How do I do this with the current rotary? Please give examples of 3rd gens that are currently on the road that meet all these criteria.
I have a 3rd gen. I want 400hp/400ftlbs and near 30mpg. I want all this and to do just regular maintenance (oil changes, occasional tune up). It has to pass CA smog and do this for at least 150K miles as a daily driver.
How do I do this with the current rotary? Please give examples of 3rd gens that are currently on the road that meet all these criteria.
08-22-09, 08:01 PM
#43
Funny watching all these rotary lovers make fools of themselves, why are you here anyway? Nothing to do waiting for another rotary rebuild by yet another builder/tuner that promises it won't blow up this time round? jk, I love the rotary and still work on them, great motors!
but seriously, why are you rotards here? bored? lost? mouse malfunction?
gl converting piston swappers that they made the wrong decision, you guys must be inhaling that rotary exhaust or perhaps you tripped on one of the hundred or so fouled spark plugs laying around the garage and hit your head.
but seriously, why are you rotards here? bored? lost? mouse malfunction?
gl converting piston swappers that they made the wrong decision, you guys must be inhaling that rotary exhaust or perhaps you tripped on one of the hundred or so fouled spark plugs laying around the garage and hit your head.
08-29-09, 06:43 PM
#47
Man, you guys are sounding just like these two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7HvP...e=channel_page
I was on the floor for about 1/2 hour laughing after I saw this. Too funny!
"Triangle nightmare you call an engine..." that's so funny! "My FD doesn't sound like a broken lawnmower anymore" lmfao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7HvP...e=channel_page
I was on the floor for about 1/2 hour laughing after I saw this. Too funny!
"Triangle nightmare you call an engine..." that's so funny! "My FD doesn't sound like a broken lawnmower anymore" lmfao
08-30-09, 05:49 AM
#48
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I'll tell you that reading threads like these really makes me wonder why people who no longer have or like the rotary motors are on this forum at all? Why does the Rx7Clube forum have an "other engine conversions" subforum? The Rx8Club forum doesn't have one. The V8Rx7Forum doesn't have a rotary conversion subforum. Perhaps the Rx7Club forum would be better without this section at all. It certainly would eliminate a lot of the contentious and angry threads. Hmmm.
Gordon
Gordon
