88turbotime

Ok, today was my first time on the dyno, and it was actually a lot of fun. I thought I would be making a few more ponies, but my main goal today was tuning (I dont have a wideband). First I give you my mods:
Racing Beat turbo back, K&N cone filter, removed emissions, street port, walbro 255, 720 seccondaries, Koyo radiator, stainless braided oil cooler lines, S-AFCII.

I would also like to say that I was pretty pleased with the SAFC. I know there are much better ways of tuning a car, but i think this worked pretty well actually.

Ok down to business. Everyone says that you should be running mid/low 11 AFRs under full boost. Well the numbers you see here are richer than they were when i started, but nowhere near low 11s. According to the graph it looks like i should add some fuel from about 4k on, to keep the AFR dropping, but I quit adding fuel because the car really acted like it is RICH. I mean, nostrils were burning with the fuel in the air, and flames were popping for the first time ever from my exhaust, and i was losing power fast.

So what do you guys think? I know I am new to this tuning thing, but the way the car was acting, i just couldnt bring myself to take the air/fuel ratio down another whole point. Thanks in advance for any help.

Oh, I made several runs today, but these are my last 2. Run 2 is the last one, and that is how the car is running now. You can see that it is richer than the next to last run. Black is A/F ratio, red is hp, and blue is torqe. The last run is richer, and less powerful, but i gained a little torque. Woot.

RETed

Don't even bother looking at the AFR's...
If you're strapped onto the dyno, just adjust the fuel until you see BEST power.
Then add a little bit more fuel, and you're all good.


-Ted

yusoslo

I personally thing there is a big difference between low 11's and mid 11's. I try to keep a conservative timing map in high boost and run a solid 11.5:1 untill 1 bar, after that I shoot for 11:1 just for peace of mind since 99% of my driving is done under those boost levels.

also TED is right just be very carefull with the safc, I know back from my honda days that they ADD timing when reading positive manifold pressure so be carefull.

ryderX

iTrader: (1)

how much boost you running?

88turbotime

So you dont think what i have there is too lean? Cause i had a lot more power when on my first run, and of course it was even leaner.
I thought the safc didnt affect timing.
about 9psi

88turbotime

oh and thanks for all the input guys.

RETed

What did I say???
Don't look at the godamn AFR's.
Geez you people get so stuck on godamn numbers, you don't even realize what you're trying to do.
You're trying to make power, right?
Why do you care what the AFR's are?
If you're going to get into trouble (i.e. pre-ignition), your power will DROP.
Too lean - power will drop.
Too rich - power will drop.
Too retarded ignition timing - power will drop.
Too advance ignition timing - power will drop.
SEE THE PATTERN???

The dyno is the ULTIMATE tuning tool to adjust fuel and ignition.
No other meter (AFR / wideband / EGT / whatever) can give you the power to show if you're adjustments are correct or not, PERIOD.

STOP staring at the AFR gauge and concentrate on making power!


-Ted

88turbotime

Actually, I was going to mention but i forgot, that making as much power as possible isnt my goal. I just want to make sure my engine isnt going to blow.

I know power will drop if its too lean OR too rich, but I also know that the engine could blow if the AIR/FUEL RATIO is too lean, and this is what Im trying to avoid. Again I am new to this, and looking for opinions on my AIR/FUEL RATIO. I want to know if it is too lean to be safe for the engine. Power is NOT my main concern here.

Im not trying to be an ***, and I know you know a lot more about this than I do, I just think that maybe I didnt communicate to you effectively what I am looking for.

Thank you.

idsigloo

You're my hero.

Eternal_Gamer

iTrader: (10)

how much power did u make before you added more fuel? with the same mods, I did 209.1 and 196.8 tq at 10psi on a 108 deg day and had only one small fan to blow air tuned only off the hks f-con. my engine is a low mileage jdm and has 102 psi on the front and 101 on the rear. i think you should be doing way more than me. My friend did 214hp 189tq on 8-9psi on his stockport rebuild.

88turbotime

Yeah it was up there at about 206 or 209, I dont remember, but that was after i had already added some fuel.

RETed

If this is the case, then why are you wasting your time and money with the dyno?


-Ted

88turbotime

Because i dont have a wideband yet, and i wanted to make sure its running safely until I can get one.

RETed

Waitaminute...

You are worrying about AFR's, but you don't own a wide-band?
And you're trying to dial it all in on a dyno?

Oh gawd...


-Ted

88turbotime

Yes, that is correct. As soon as I succeed in life enough to be able to afford a wideband, I will buy one. But in the mean time, I got on the dyno to do what I can for the time being. In my opinion it wasnt too bad of an investment because it allowed me to get familiar with reading AFRs with someone who knows what they are doing, it let me know that my car was indeed running lean which i do not want, it gave me some practice using my SAFC and instantly seeing the results, and i found out how many horses i am making, which is not vital information, i just think its nice to know.

Ted I know you are very knowledgeable about RX-7s, and I respect that. I come to people like you in hopes of getting help, as I am still learning this stuff. But now im starting to wonder how many of your 23,000 posts are just flaming noobs.

Thank you.

RETed

You're welcome to do a search and do your own research.


-Ted

mort2002

iTrader: (1)

how much did it cost to get your car dyno'd?

icecreaman

THIS SHOULD BE PUT AS A STICKY!!!!!!!!!
I try to explain this ALL THE TIME and people DON'T GET IT!
You tune by AF on the STREET to be safe, on the dyno the DYNO TELLS ALL!

88turbotime

Uh huh, well in this thread you're trying to be helpful in 1 out of 5.





Ok people, we've gotten way far off track now. Weather you think I should have put my car on the dyno or not, it happened, because for now thats the only way I can tell what my A/F ratios are. Let me remind you that my purpose of going there was to tune the AFRs, NOT to tune for maximum power.

So again, if anyone wants to help, I am wondering if you were in my situation, would you add more fuel to get the AFRs down to the 11s (which I am told is a safe mixture), even though it seems to me (someone who is inexperienced) that its running rich already (shooting flames, etc)?

Thank you.

No_Rotor_RX7

what kind of exhaust do you have? are there any leaks? i don't always trust a dyno's wideband... unless we screw it in to the downpipe , via an o2 sensor bung. even so, they see so much abuse and aren't always calibrated.

icecreaman

i like my turbo cars to me much closer to mid 12s, if that is the answer you are looking for?
but i don't like to do work twice, so i REALLY set my car to best power and the AF is what the AF is.

88turbotime

I have the racing beat turbo back, and there arent any leaks. And yeah, I realize now that i made a mistake, because the guy asked if he should put the sensor into where my O2 sensor is, and i said just put it in the exhaust tip, because at the time i didnt know if removing my O2 sensor would mess up my tuning, but now I know that the O2 sensor really only does anything at idle and cruise.

88turbotime

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I do understand what you guys are saying about the tuning for best power. The thing is Im really not all that worried about making as much power as possible, I just want to tune it to a nice safe AFR so my engine will last. I guess im just unsure about what a "good, SAFE" AFR is.

RETed

I don't know why you own an FC or any sports car for that matter.
If all you cared about is reliability (and not power), why not own a Toyota Corolla / Tercel / Camry?

I actually stated how to make safe power, but I guess you didn't understand that part of my reply.


-Ted

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

So stop wasting your time.

Just because he wants to shoot for some reliability doesnt mean that all he cares about is reliability. If that was the case he wouldnt be driving a rotary, let alone a turbocharged one. Its clear that he is trying to make some power, but doesnt feel the need to make every last hp at the expense of reliability. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

It gets really tiresome watching you parade around here with your chest puffed out like you are some kind of god. Great you have 23k posts. Awesome. You would think by now you wouldnt waste your time flaming new guys for asking a question. That you would have, at some point, grown(up) out of it. yet I constantly see you doing it. Whats the point? Bumping up your post total so you can puff up a little more? Making you feel better when you wake up? Trying to be funny?

"HAHA Did you guys see that?! I put soap in his coffee! Take that you ******* rookie!"

get over yourself.


BC

and if you do read this, dont bother replying. Save it for some other post I make. Im not going to check this thread again. So spend a few minutes right now, come up with a witty, razorsharp reply, write it down so you wont forget it, and use it next time I dare to challenge the great RETed. You can start it out with something about not understanding why I drive an FC cause I didnt get TII. I look forward to it.