Hitachi Bathurst sp twins 650ps
08-02-18, 02:45 PM
#107
Full Member
So I don't know if there are any boost experts here, but someone break down the possibility of these twins or even a gt35R averaging more the 20hp per pound of boost?
I watched an EFR 8374 average 17.5hp per pound of boost in person.
This is impossible, no way can something with wheels that size be that efficient.
By doing the math from his dyno runs, from 15psi to 17.5 psi there was 52hp.
Anyone else call bullshit on this?
By way of comparison, my BNR's averaged 11.5 hp per lb of boost (even though my RB catback was hurting the power output) that difference is way extreme.
I watched an EFR 8374 average 17.5hp per pound of boost in person.
This is impossible, no way can something with wheels that size be that efficient.
By doing the math from his dyno runs, from 15psi to 17.5 psi there was 52hp.
Anyone else call bullshit on this?
By way of comparison, my BNR's averaged 11.5 hp per lb of boost (even though my RB catback was hurting the power output) that difference is way extreme.
08-06-18, 09:26 AM
#108
Full Member
Thread Starter
The manlline Hub Dyno doesn’t lie , and until you have brought a set of Hitachi Bathurst sp 650 twins your negative comments are meaningless without facts , so yes the sp twins have overwhelming power figure because they where design by Hitachi Japan engineers , for the rotary Fd3s twin turbo engine.
And as for BNRs hi flow twins, they are basically overhaul standard set of ht10 or ht12 that have Garrett Chinese made cores ,doesn’t come close to the brand new set of Bathurst sp twins improvements .
So to the haters on here until you have facts keep your bullshit theories to yourselfs .
And as for BNRs hi flow twins, they are basically overhaul standard set of ht10 or ht12 that have Garrett Chinese made cores ,doesn’t come close to the brand new set of Bathurst sp twins improvements .
So to the haters on here until you have facts keep your bullshit theories to yourselfs .
08-06-18, 11:02 AM
#109
But you just keep spouting Hitachi Japan blah blah without backing up your claims with any genuine graphs. Also you say, unless you experience it, but they are not available to the wider public so how can we?. I don't think Hitachi a huge international manufacturer, are bothering spending huge sums on r&d for a 25yr old not very successful sports car imo, but happy to be proven wrong. Many of us that have owned these cars a long time have heard the high power twins ***** more than once tbh, it's never proven very well.
its easy to sort out all these haters my friend, just provide proper dyno graphs from a known dyno operator like the rest of us do.
job done.
its easy to sort out all these haters my friend, just provide proper dyno graphs from a known dyno operator like the rest of us do.
job done.
08-06-18, 11:27 AM
#110
Aren't these twins just the Hitachi HT12-3KAI? Larger compressor wheels by 2mm but otherwise you are still limited to the restrictions of the stock exhaust manifold.
https://gcg.com.au/mazda-rx-7-fd3s-k...ent&format=pdf
Product Note:
https://gcg.com.au/mazda-rx-7-fd3s-k...ent&format=pdf
Product Note:
- These upgrade turbochargers have larger compressor wheels from factory. In standard form, the HT12-3 turbochargers have a 41.5mm inducer compressor wheel, the KAI upgrades are 43.2mm
- Revised compressor housing machining to increase compressor side airflow capabilities
- The KAI upgrades are direct bolt on, with no further modifications required
08-06-18, 12:46 PM
#111
The specifications provided earlier in the thread-
04-19-16, 10:46 PM
THE DOCTOR
Thread Starter
Location: australia
Special production hitachi twins
Bathurst sp
Larger a/r ratio compressor cover for high flow at high pressures
Compressors sizes
Std 41.6mmx57mm
Bathurst sp 47mmx 68mm
Turbine size
Std 45mmx50mm
Bathurst sp 51mmx56mm
Actuators pressures
Std 0.45 bar
Bathurst sp 0.85bar
Very responsive twins 2800 19psi to 8500rpm
THE DOCTOR
Thread Starter
Location: australia
Special production hitachi twins
Bathurst sp
Larger a/r ratio compressor cover for high flow at high pressures
Compressors sizes
Std 41.6mmx57mm
Bathurst sp 47mmx 68mm
Turbine size
Std 45mmx50mm
Bathurst sp 51mmx56mm
Actuators pressures
Std 0.45 bar
Bathurst sp 0.85bar
Very responsive twins 2800 19psi to 8500rpm
08-06-18, 10:16 PM
#112
Where's your dyno video?
Where's the drag run?
Where's the torque on your "dyno"?
Your facts do not align with reality and you wonder why everyone is "hating".
If you believe in your product show your work. Or at least become a registered vendor before hawking your product...
08-06-18, 10:34 PM
#113
Full Member
Looking at the size of the wheels compared to the BNR turbos, I can see where they should make more power, though the size difference isn't that much, anyone who knows turbos would know that a larger wheel will take longer (higher rpm) to see boost. There isn't a ceramic ball bearing to help either.
He claims 19 psi @ 2800. (not with those wheels and journal bearings)
He claims 52hp gain from just 2.5 lbs of boost.(over 20 hp per lb of boost).
He is bashing BNR saying the wheel is too wide and is creating back pressure and it is a cheap made Chinese product.
Look, I would be interested in faster spooling, more powerful set of twins that can make big power on pump gas, but the specs on these Bathurst twins from Hitachi (no one I know uses hitachi over garrett, precision, Borg, etc) yet you claim these small twins are making more power then any medium sized single I just listed.
Does his dyno work using the wheel hubs of the car or is it true RWHP? There is more drag and power loss with tires strapped down to the rollers.
I don't even know how many of these twins he has available for sale, warranty, etc.
One more thing, how the hell can you design a turbo charger "for" a rotary engine? That just doesn't make sense. Stock, bridge, Pport or streetport will throw that "design" off.
Not hating at all, but these thing need to be explained.
He claims 19 psi @ 2800. (not with those wheels and journal bearings)
He claims 52hp gain from just 2.5 lbs of boost.(over 20 hp per lb of boost).
He is bashing BNR saying the wheel is too wide and is creating back pressure and it is a cheap made Chinese product.
Look, I would be interested in faster spooling, more powerful set of twins that can make big power on pump gas, but the specs on these Bathurst twins from Hitachi (no one I know uses hitachi over garrett, precision, Borg, etc) yet you claim these small twins are making more power then any medium sized single I just listed.
Does his dyno work using the wheel hubs of the car or is it true RWHP? There is more drag and power loss with tires strapped down to the rollers.
I don't even know how many of these twins he has available for sale, warranty, etc.
One more thing, how the hell can you design a turbo charger "for" a rotary engine? That just doesn't make sense. Stock, bridge, Pport or streetport will throw that "design" off.
Not hating at all, but these thing need to be explained.
Last edited by zx1441; 08-06-18 at 10:37 PM.
08-07-18, 07:43 AM
#114
Full Member
Thread Starter
I’ve supplied more info than the rest of the turbo supplies .
I’m the only supplier in the world for the Bathurst sp model twins , so it a rareity to even have the opportunity to buy set of Bathurst sp twins
.
Honest i sell about few sets a month around the world mostly Australia.
It’s my hobbie not my income , so most poeple that have purchased the Bathurst sp twins are very happy .
Most rotor enthusiasts that like to keep there car oem and who want power upgrades always go Bathurst sp twins .
You want torque figures and drag times buy a set and u will find out .
The same way When u buy a garret or precision turbo they don’t supply torque figures and drag times .
So There rare and out perform a single street car with boost levels up to 26 psi and no mods required for installation
Most Fd3s enthusiasts love to drive there car on a daily basis. And the Bathurst sp sequential setup is the way to go
I’m the only supplier in the world for the Bathurst sp model twins , so it a rareity to even have the opportunity to buy set of Bathurst sp twins
.
Honest i sell about few sets a month around the world mostly Australia.
It’s my hobbie not my income , so most poeple that have purchased the Bathurst sp twins are very happy .
Most rotor enthusiasts that like to keep there car oem and who want power upgrades always go Bathurst sp twins .
You want torque figures and drag times buy a set and u will find out .
The same way When u buy a garret or precision turbo they don’t supply torque figures and drag times .
So There rare and out perform a single street car with boost levels up to 26 psi and no mods required for installation
Most Fd3s enthusiasts love to drive there car on a daily basis. And the Bathurst sp sequential setup is the way to go
08-08-18, 10:48 AM
#115
Cool dude, but for the prices you ask for these twins and your SMIC among other things, you need to show more empirical evidence of each product's benefits compared to OEM and the competition. Transparency will always win out when doing business and expecting people to hand over their hard earned cash to an Australian man thousands of miles away whom has been banned from other forums for various reasons is a tough one.
Last edited by cib24; 08-08-18 at 04:51 PM.
08-08-18, 04:02 PM
#116
"your turbo source"
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The manlline Hub Dyno doesn’t lie , and until you have brought a set of Hitachi Bathurst sp 650 twins your negative comments are meaningless without facts , so yes the sp twins have overwhelming power figure because they where design by Hitachi Japan engineers , for the rotary Fd3s twin turbo engine.
And as for BNRs hi flow twins, they are basically overhaul standard set of ht10 or ht12 that have Garrett Chinese made cores ,doesn’t come close to the brand new set of Bathurst sp twins improvements .
So to the haters on here until you have facts keep your bullshit theories to yourselfs .
And as for BNRs hi flow twins, they are basically overhaul standard set of ht10 or ht12 that have Garrett Chinese made cores ,doesn’t come close to the brand new set of Bathurst sp twins improvements .
So to the haters on here until you have facts keep your bullshit theories to yourselfs .
Have a good day BNR
08-09-18, 06:49 AM
#117
Full Member
Thread Starter
Bryan did I upset u , ha ha
i guees the trutth hurts , and the Australians are well aware of the crap overhual oem twins u do that make the same power as the 3kia version.
You know how many of your bnr overhauled twins I had to removed and bin ,it’s not funny .A Lot of pissed Australians with bnr .
Where’s the 270 thrust bearing ,
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...33bc29b2d.jpeg
Have a nice day from fd motorsports.
i guees the trutth hurts , and the Australians are well aware of the crap overhual oem twins u do that make the same power as the 3kia version.
You know how many of your bnr overhauled twins I had to removed and bin ,it’s not funny .A Lot of pissed Australians with bnr .
Where’s the 270 thrust bearing ,
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...33bc29b2d.jpeg
Have a nice day from fd motorsports.
Last edited by THE DOCTOR; 08-09-18 at 09:22 AM.
08-09-18, 10:40 AM
#118
"your turbo source"
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Thrust bearing
Bryan did I upset u , ha ha
i guees the trutth hurts , and the Australians are well aware of the crap overhual oem twins u do that make the same power as the 3kia version.
You know how many of your bnr overhauled twins I had to removed and bin ,it’s not funny .A Lot of pissed Australians with bnr .
Where’s the 270 thrust bearing ,
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...33bc29b2d.jpeg
Have a nice day from fd motorsports.
i guees the trutth hurts , and the Australians are well aware of the crap overhual oem twins u do that make the same power as the 3kia version.
You know how many of your bnr overhauled twins I had to removed and bin ,it’s not funny .A Lot of pissed Australians with bnr .
Where’s the 270 thrust bearing ,
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...33bc29b2d.jpeg
Have a nice day from fd motorsports.
I have been building these twins for nearly 20 years. I'm sure there have been some unhappy customers here and there. But over all I've done a good job with them over the years. I still have customers that get my turbos on a consistent basis. Don't be so jealous Marcus that I have built many more rx7 Turbo's than you have. It's not the end of the world you know.
That being said you just just uploaded a picture of a ht12 bearing housing with a oil deflector. That is not the thrust bearing. If you knew turbos it looks something like this. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...78ab69f47c.jpg
Last edited by Bryan@BNR; 08-09-18 at 11:06 AM.
08-09-18, 11:02 AM
#119
"your turbo source"
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So let me get this straight, we have more weird upside down graphs showing 489whp (also not even remotely close to your 650PS number) on a unnamed dyno brand, showing no torque curve, with no video and this all being done at 26psi on stock frame turbos.
Just to reiterate, I made 470whp and 400wtq at 19psi on BNR stage 3's, I have a dyno graph that shows torque so people can math it out and show I'm not lying, I have video of the car dynoing; to show I'm not lying, I also have multiple pictures and detailed descriptions; to show I'm not lying.
But screw it, I'll take it at your word, with all this hype about your $5,195USD stock frame turbos making 19whp more then me while running 26psi (compared to my modest 19psi). Guess I gotta make more then 489whp, post a dyno chart that shows the brand of dyno and a torque curve, and make a video as well. Hell, while we're at it; why don't you post a dyno chart that shows the brand of dyno and a torque curve, and make a video as well; should be easy given that awesome "RMagic" fame and that it's summer in Australia. I live in Cleveland Ohio so I have to wait till spring, but should be fun either way.
Just to reiterate, I made 470whp and 400wtq at 19psi on BNR stage 3's, I have a dyno graph that shows torque so people can math it out and show I'm not lying, I have video of the car dynoing; to show I'm not lying, I also have multiple pictures and detailed descriptions; to show I'm not lying.
But screw it, I'll take it at your word, with all this hype about your $5,195USD stock frame turbos making 19whp more then me while running 26psi (compared to my modest 19psi). Guess I gotta make more then 489whp, post a dyno chart that shows the brand of dyno and a torque curve, and make a video as well. Hell, while we're at it; why don't you post a dyno chart that shows the brand of dyno and a torque curve, and make a video as well; should be easy given that awesome "RMagic" fame and that it's summer in Australia. I live in Cleveland Ohio so I have to wait till spring, but should be fun either way.
08-09-18, 05:31 PM
#120
Full Member
Thread Starter
And Its called a thrust support plate , but you wouldn’t know your still rebuilding the old ht10,12 crap ha
We only sell the latestest improved model 2018 twins that Hitachi Japan improved for high boost pressures, all completely brand new .
improved turbine housing
improved centre outlet housing for no boost drop between transition
And Not like u ,We don’t waste our time overhauling the old models So u can get a quick sales .
So don’t come onto my thread with your theories ,you think your smarter than Hitachi Japan engineers .ha
The nee Bathurst sp twins are Limited iwhicj is a improved model over the new 3kis model which has lot more improved components ,For more boost and flow and all designed by hitachi special low volume order .
larger compressor cover
up rated actuator springs from 045 bar to. 0.85
larger Comp wheel
larger turbine wheel
and more thing that I will not disclose
Bryan your overhauling oem stock units and replaced the cores with Garrett core which were not designed to handle the rotaries High EGTs that’s why they all leak . .
if it’s true u have been playing with these for 20years well u sure haven’t progressed with any development ands improvements
yout works Cheap and nasty repair quick for the dollar.
Bye Bryan go start your own thread get off mine
Last edited by THE DOCTOR; 08-09-18 at 06:37 PM.
08-12-18, 03:37 PM
#121
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You keep my name out of your thread and I will not post.
i don't really care what parts your turbos have. You blast my products I'm gonna call you out.
Why didn't you take IRP up on the back to back dyno comparison? You didn't because your a salesman and your full of it.
i don't really care what parts your turbos have. You blast my products I'm gonna call you out.
Why didn't you take IRP up on the back to back dyno comparison? You didn't because your a salesman and your full of it.
08-12-18, 04:37 PM
#122
Also good salesman does not have to talk down his competitors to make sales. While enqiring about the SP turbos, and how they compared to BNR, he did a better job to convince me to get BNRs than anyone else did
Its quite simple.
If a salesman tells me that the competition is ****, but his is better. Then what i read is everything is **** but he is the least shitty.
if another salesman tells me that the competitors make really really good turbos, but then go on to explain why his is better for me, then i feel i get some superb quality stuff, not just the least shitty thing.
08-12-18, 05:19 PM
#123
Full Member
I would very much like to see an independent install and tune of them. If they are as good as claimed, he is sitting on a goldmine if a reputable US tuner will back them.
Also good salesman does not have to talk down his competitors to make sales. While enqiring about the SP turbos, and how they compared to BNR, he did a better job to convince me to get BNRs than anyone else did
Its quite simple.
If a salesman tells me that the competition is ****, but his is better. Then what i read is everything is **** but he is the least shitty.
if another salesman tells me that the competitors make really really good turbos, but then go on to explain why his is better for me, then i feel i get some superb quality stuff, not just the least shitty thing.
Also good salesman does not have to talk down his competitors to make sales. While enqiring about the SP turbos, and how they compared to BNR, he did a better job to convince me to get BNRs than anyone else did
Its quite simple.
If a salesman tells me that the competition is ****, but his is better. Then what i read is everything is **** but he is the least shitty.
if another salesman tells me that the competitors make really really good turbos, but then go on to explain why his is better for me, then i feel i get some superb quality stuff, not just the least shitty thing.
Saw 16 psi on the data log. So the BNR's to me aren't exactly junk. This fall, we turn them up.
08-13-18, 12:40 AM
#124
This thread is a joke. Some dude pushing his product and putting others down to make a buck. No data, all talk.
I've always had single turbo FDs, but I'll be going BNR for my new stockish one. I was actually interested in the Bathurst until I read through the whole thread. If we ever see a back to back comparison from a reputable shop, maybe I'll reconsider.
I've always had single turbo FDs, but I'll be going BNR for my new stockish one. I was actually interested in the Bathurst until I read through the whole thread. If we ever see a back to back comparison from a reputable shop, maybe I'll reconsider.
