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280whp @ 12psi on '99twins, safe tune

Old 01-21-09, 07:53 PM
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280whp @ 12psi on '99twins, safe tune

These are the dyno results from tuning my rebuilt 13B in 2006. I have only put about 3k miles on the motor since then, and nothing else has changed. The tune is very, very conservative: Low A/Fs and retarded timing to help ensure longevity. Notice the dip at the turbo switchover! This could be smoothed out with an Efini y-pipe, but I've got other plans in store for that.

Nevertheless, water injection will be my next major move to combat knock and CCP. My next power goal is 15psi on the '99 twins and stock ports on 91 octane. What is a realistic power expectation at 15psi?

I look forward to hearing thoughts!

Click here or see attachment: http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...raph080206.jpg

Mods


Engine:

Hurley 3mm ceramic apex race seals
Hurley corner race seals
JDM '99 spec turbos
Tri-Point 3" downpipe
Tri-Point high flow catalytic converter
HKS exhaust
Mazda Competition radiator
ACT Performance street disc
ACT Xtreme pressure plate
XACT ProLite flywheel
Miata thermostat
Tri-Point 8mm ignition wires
K&N replacement air filter

Electronics:

AEM EMS
AEM wideband UEGO controller
Attached Thumbnails 280whp @ 12psi on '99twins, safe tune-dynograph080206-1.jpg  
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Old 01-22-09, 11:23 PM
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very nice! Im stationed in Ventura...maybe when I get back from Japan in August we'll be able to meet up with the cars...I'd love to see yours in action haha..
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Old 01-23-09, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Envisioned7 View Post
very nice! Im stationed in Ventura...maybe when I get back from Japan in August we'll be able to meet up with the cars...I'd love to see yours in action haha..
Cool, sounds good man. Keep me posted on your whereabouts!
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Old 01-23-09, 12:46 PM
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I dont think a down pipe would fix that dip on your power curve...

DO you have a graph that shows boost throught the RPM?
I would guess that your loosing boost in that section..

I think some tunning will get you where you want. 15 psi and factory twins yeilds about 350whp+- on Avg.
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Old 01-23-09, 01:29 PM
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Not a downpipe, I've got that... it's the stock '95 y-pipe that's choking off airflow during the 2nd turbo's addition. The old 10-8-10 boost pattern, mine is like 12-10-12. The '99+ y-pipe helps this problem by being more free-flowing, or so I'm told.
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Old 01-23-09, 06:00 PM
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For 12 psi Thats low on stock usdm twins, so thats really bad on 99's.
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Old 03-21-09, 06:24 PM
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I thought the hurley seals were carbon.

Are your seals the ones that turn to dust (if the engine blows) so is to not damage the turbos?
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Old 03-21-09, 09:58 PM
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Just had 2 cars with stock ports and 99 twins tuned here and both made 312ish at 12psi. But this was done by one of the top tuners in the USA..... Dyno's do very so maybe after you pull some fuel it will be in the ballpark....
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Old 03-22-09, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sk8erpunk1983 View Post
I thought the hurley seals were carbon.

Are your seals the ones that turn to dust (if the engine blows) so is to not damage the turbos?
The Hurley seals I've got are ceramic... not sure about turning to dust, but at 3mm, they're not supposed to blow

Originally Posted by sk8world View Post
Just had 2 cars with stock ports and 99 twins tuned here and both made 312ish at 12psi. But this was done by one of the top tuners in the USA..... Dyno's do very so maybe after you pull some fuel it will be in the ballpark....
That sounds much better... It was tuned on a Dynapack, way rich I might add. Any way you could send me dyno charts or fuel maps for the two cars?
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Old 03-23-09, 12:12 PM
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I think you might want to do some research on troubleshooting that low boost level transition to try and decrease the amount of the drop. The autosport....com site (check for link in FAQ thread) has some good info on troubleshooting that. It looks like you drop down to 5 PSI or so at transition. I don't think the Efini Y pipe is going to help that issue.
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Old 03-23-09, 12:16 PM
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how does a dynopack compare to reading vs a dynojet or mustang dyno?
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Old 03-23-09, 05:06 PM
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Sorry, not my maps to give. Ray Wilson tuned the cars. You could give him a buzz. www.pfsupercars.com
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Old 03-24-09, 08:31 AM
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t's a dynapack. they read at least 10% low compared to the dynojets, trust me on this one. On my old nonturbo I put down 155rwhp on a dynapack and 172 on a dynojet, which is about 10%.

that would be over 300whp on a dynojet in this case
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Old 03-24-09, 06:03 PM
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so you still have a cat and stock IC correct? If so those numbers aren't bad as the stock IC heats soaks like crazy...
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Old 03-24-09, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by montego View Post
so you still have a cat and stock IC correct? If so those numbers aren't bad as the stock IC heats soaks like crazy...
I have a high flow cat midpipe from Tri-Point.

I think there were a combination of factors... the dyno used, the near 100*F temp when tuning, and a deliberately "safe" A/F tune.

After I install a simple water injection kit and upgrade the intercooler, I would like to retune and lean out the A/F a little and bump boost to about 15lbs. This is the ultimate goal for the car.

I just replaced my COM cable for the AEM EMS, so hopefully I can post my fuel maps and datalogs soon.

Thanks to all for the input!
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Old 03-25-09, 01:04 PM
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if there were no corrections added and it was a solid 280 pull then I agree it would be closer to 300 dynojet numbers. But I have scene most shops (that run dyno dynamics, mustang and dynapacs go ahead and add some correction to read closer to dynojet...
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Old 03-25-09, 01:27 PM
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Ya, I'm not hung up on the specific numbers themself, but the rich tune does. It feels great on the road, very responsive, but it burns gas at an astonishing rate
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Old 04-02-09, 12:42 PM
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That 300 to the wheels sound abut right. My FD with stock internals, stock turbos dynoed 303whp this morning at RX7.com. That was at 12psi with PFC, Hi-flow cat. and upgraded fuel pump plus the regular bolt-on stuff.
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Old 04-13-09, 08:00 PM
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Data and logs

Originally Posted by gracer7-rx7 View Post
I think you might want to do some research on troubleshooting that low boost level transition to try and decrease the amount of the drop. The autosport....com site (check for link in FAQ thread) has some good info on troubleshooting that. It looks like you drop down to 5 PSI or so at transition. I don't think the Efini Y pipe is going to help that issue.
Dead on... As you can see below, my boost pattern in 3rd gear is 12-6-12. Good call, now how do you think I could help this? (I didn't see anything specific to this problem on the autosport site)

First time out logging data ...so I'm still trying learning how to extrapolate the data. Help is appreciated! I didn't set AFR units correctly, so I'll have to log some more in the correct units. However, the real time O2 date followed the O2 target table closely, but in the wrong units, so it doesn't make sense in the graphs.

The main thing I can't figure out is the fuel map. Below, it's presented in Raw, Pulse Width, and Duty Cycle units. None of the tables seem to make sense in the upper-right hand corner area. How can duty cycle approach 200%?

Here's a couple of images captured from the AEM's software.

3rd gear pull 3k-7krpms, RPM and Boost over time
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...time041309.jpg

AFR target map (wideband 02)
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...tMap041309.jpg

3D fuel map w/ raw data
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...wraw041309.jpg

Fuel PW
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...apPW041309.jpg

Fuel DC
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...apDC041309.jpg

Can someone lend some insight? Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails 280whp @ 12psi on '99twins, safe tune-3rdgear3k-7kboostrpmovertime041309.jpg  
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Old 04-15-09, 11:51 PM
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I see an Efini Y-pipe and a larger intercooler in your future, and possibly meth, I don't know much about the AEM system, but that may have affected it, but I doubt it.
What was your injector duty? have you rewired the pump? and a different intake all will help, I personally am using the Greddy/Trust intake and it works great and seems to be one of the better ones on the market IMO, no crappy accordian hoses FTW
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Old 04-24-09, 09:58 PM
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Here's some updated graphs with AFRs with primary and secondary injector duty

New datalogs with 02 sensor feedback target and real-time. I think the real-time measurement climbs toward the target around 5800RPM due to a graph that reduces the INJ GAIN exponentially as seen in the first posted image. The second image is AFRs with both sets of injectors over a 3rd gear pull.
Attached Thumbnails 280whp @ 12psi on '99twins, safe tune-o2-fb-target-map-041309.jpg   280whp @ 12psi on '99twins, safe tune-3rd-gear-pull-3.1k-6.6k-042409.jpg  
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Old 10-27-11, 01:45 AM
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pretty good numbers on the stockers.
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Old 12-16-11, 09:59 PM
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parked
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Old 12-17-11, 11:08 AM
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^what?
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Old 12-17-11, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AWD-RWD racer View Post
how does a dynopack compare to reading vs a dynojet or mustang dyno?
Originally Posted by arghx View Post
t's a dynapack. they read at least 10% low compared to the dynojets, trust me on this one. On my old nonturbo I put down 155rwhp on a dynapack and 172 on a dynojet, which is about 10%.

that would be over 300whp on a dynojet in this case

In my old shop Mustang Dyno Cell showed the Stock 2009 R35 at
406whp at 6400RPM
414 torque at 3800

Same Car Same Day Dyna Pack
452whp at 6350
448 torque 3865

All Dynos Vary..typically Dyno Jets Read The Highest followed by Dyna Packs...and the rest of the real world uses Mustang Dynos. (and tune with the hoods down )
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