rx7f4n4tic

Anyone have a link for a site that sells the zeal coilovers besides their main site? Ive heard people saying they found them for 1750 ish but I haven't found a site yet. Thanks.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

check out www.autornd.com, you can either email them, or call their number and ask to speak with Rishie. Mention Chris, the guy with the FD3S from Jacksonville, Florida sent you (Mr. Function-X as im known as, haha), and you should get hooked up

rx7f4n4tic

any particular coilovers from them that youd suggest? I was looking at the B6 swifts. Prices are a bit high but ive never heard anything bad about endless systems.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

I personally went with the Function-X, but am still waiting for them from Japan. I went with them, because the spring used is supposed to be designed, to not lose any strength or integrity when compressing or expanding, as well as having 30 way adjuststability. Im not sure what type of effect I will feel, but I can compare it to a friend of mine's FD, who is running the Tein Flex. I know they are 2 different companies with 2 different class of coilover, but I cam still compare. That and the fact that I wanted to try something different and new, as no one has told me they had the function-X's yet as well.

The most popular ones that people use on this forum (units from Zeal anyhow) are the Function B6, as it has a 5 way dampening affect, which is easier to notice the different adjustments as opposed to having to click 4 or 5 times on the coilovers with more "adjustability" to acheive the same effect. It also has a moderately larger piston, 42mm front and 40mm rear IIRC. I know for the FD, the piston's up front were just a tad bit larger than the rears. There are a lot more features, but I can't recall offhand. For more specific specs tho, feel free to call Endless, I did, and they helped me and were on the phones with me for over 2 hours.

Personally, i'd reccomend the B6, as those seem to be tried and true wutrh other member. I would reccomend the function-X, but I have not had a chance to review them yet, and don't want to push a particular product when I don't have first hand experience with.

dis1

I have a lot of info on my site, which I'm sure you have seen unless you have not used the search feature. The B6 has 6 settings of dampening, not 5. The piston size is average even though Zeal says it is large on their site. Many other kits are larger and run up to 52mm however piston size isn't that important. It is more important for cars with struts. As for the springs I'd consider going with the normal springs as opposed to the swift. The swift are lighter but won't retain their rates as well over time. The benefit of the weight savings isn't worth the money unless you are hard-core racing.

As for price use google. I found many vendors with 10% off retail. (One with 15% off but they no longer carry Zeal for some reason.) However the price did jump because Zeal now requires $200 that they send to your chosen install shop to insure a qualified technician puts them in. Ha, not many of those around!!! What a bad idea. We don't live in Japan Zeal. Most shops here in my experience are just as risky as letting the owner do it.

I hate to say this because Endless/Zeal rocks and has great support but if they had that $200 fee back when I bought mine I would have been less likely to buy Zeal. They do have a statement saying they will waive the fee in certain situations but this may be more difficult if you go through a vendor.

dis1

I'm sorry but I don't see a relation between the $200 install fee and preventing gray market sales. If you do have an issue with gray market Zeal coilovers I don't see how a $200 surcharge would help matters. If anything a gray market vendor might find a way around this and tempt more sales by offering a lower price. Not only that but somebody buying a kit though a gray market vendor might only find out about this issue after purchase. Sure you can fall back on your policy and void a warranty but the same would hold true without a $200 install fee. I would think a clearly stated policy on warranty work on the website would do just fine. Warranty cards could be different for products sold in and out side of the US and clearly state where the warranty is valid. Problem solved.

Sorry to be so negative on this policy but I have never seen anything like it before and don't see how it is an advantage. Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems to discourage sales??

A note on gray market sales: For those that don't know it would be any Endless product purchased through a vendor that got their product from Japan instead of Endless USA. Please see this link: http://www.newyork.bbb.org/library/p.../subrep45.html
The warranty issue is mentioned and it appears to very clear that the warranty may be voided.

I believe the Gray market issue and the $200 install fee are two separate issues. Again though, maybe I'm missing something.

dis1

Endless Work

You got the two items mixed up. The install fee is to preserve the integrity of the product line. The authorized dealers are ones we've prescreened and end users have referred to us as a place they are comfortable with. It is to protect the company and product. For those in areas that are unreachable we would work with you on advice for installing the coilovers, etc.... Pictures and alignment specs must be provided. We have had instances where someone does not understand the concept of setting up these coilovers and damages them. At that point blames the product when it was installer error. That's what the price is about. THe only way you can buy coilovers from endless usa is at retail price and prepaid installation. This is what we've agreed to do to protect our dealers' interests. This is to deter point and click purchasing so that you may be referred to a dealer who is knowledgable about both our products and your chasis.

To prevent gray market we simply will not supply services to those coilovers. No overhauling, no maintenance parts, etc.... A serial number must be provided that is in our system or your warranty card must be on file with endless usa.

Hopefully that clears things up. This is truly better for the consumer. Think less internet, more service. That's what our product is about.

Endless Work

We're not discouraging sales, just making it so that end users see the benefit in working with our allocated dealers. You'll see that all endless dealers have had to start from scratch. As of this year we've implemented a screening process, etc... Dealership is only available in limited quantities based on your area. We want the best dealers out there to carry the best product. We are confident in our product, info, and services we offer compared to our competitors.

rynberg

Actually, that business model is admirable and I wish more companies would have the ***** to do things that way. The current generation is too internet store biased -- although I'm thinking more in the terms of audio/video here (and before anyone gets indignant, I'm guilty of it too, at least with some things).

dis1

Well that makes more sense. Thanks for the replies. I guess I'm just bitter about "qualified shops" because I have had so very very many bad experiences. (I also like doing my own work and don't like the idea of being forced to pay a shop to take the fun out of it.) Hell, I updated my coilover page describing my last experience with corner balancing just a few weeks ago. I can see why you would strive to make sure dealers are qualified but in my eyes it is an impossible task and may force the consumer in to paying to have a crappy shop do the install.

My hope would be that you would waive the $200 fee for people like me that know what they are doing. I know it would be hard to tell if the person truly does know what they are doing but perhaps a waiver could be signed or something.

As for the "screening process" I'd be interested in hearing more about that. What happens when a shop passes and then the guy doing the work quits and is replaced by a moron that clamps the piston rod with a pair of pliers?

dis1

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

Screws Canadians around the bend... So now I have to pay 50% more plus $300 (CDN) to have some overpriced shop install them on my racecar? And the inconvenience of me trailering the car to a shop to do so? F' that. Unless you have a prodeal program or something forget it. 10 years of professional motorsports and always dealing through people in the U.S. without problems so I don't want to change course. Hmmm just had an idea... should become the eastern Canada distributor for Endless... hmmm... Let me guess JRP already has it secured and they control everything and we pay 200%-300% more for stuff. Sorry, rant off.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

RacerJason, if you read Endless Work's post more carefully, they will work with you on the installation fee if you yourself are qualified, etc etc. trust me on this

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

For goodness sake, i've done four spring/shock/coilover unit installs on my car (and am no genius mechanic) and there's really nothing to it... and would be less so when installing a pre-built unit.

Sorry, but that $200 bucks sounds like a crock to me. It's a bloody shock absorber, not a motor overhaul on a Ferrari. A monkey could put them in.

dis1

It looks like one of Endless Work's posts was deleted... Now my rebuttal that starts out "I'm sorry but I don't see a relation between" isn't responding to anything.

I don't know... this is all a bit fishy.
dis1

dis1

KD Rotary is the only shop I trust with all aspects of my car that is within driving distance. They are in PA.

As for time to install it takes several hours. $200 would be a good price if in fact a customer wanted to have a shop do it.
dis1

Endless Work

dis1, thank you very much for your suggestion. I will contact KD rotary and send them info of our products and our reputation in Japan. Thank you very very much. Without people like you recommending the "best" places to us it's a crap shoot. This is why the dealer network is so small at the moment. We are patient and willing to wait for the right ones.

Much thanks to all who support our model.

Heath

iTrader: (11)

I bought my zeal coilovers second hand and have no idea where the original owner purchased them. Does that mean I can't get them serviced when the time comes? That seems pretty messed up if so.

Endless Work

If they are second hand and you don't have the original invoice this may be a possibility.

If a product is proven to be gray marketted it will not carry support. The gray market issue has gotten to a point where consumers are unwilling to pay the prices needed to allow for substantial support to the end user. Companies are bringing products over here thru back alleys and not mentioning the consequences to buy from an unauthorized dealer.

I'm sure Endless will gladly honor services if your product was purchased from an authorized dealer.

owen is fat

right on, if you purchse a Zeal setup used, off ebay or even this site... you could get hosed on service if you ever need it?
that is horrible.
deny service? unbelievable.
I could imagine charging more, that makes sense for a company to try and recover costs lost thru graymarket sales... but to deny work? unreal.

after looking at Zeal, Koni/GC, Cusco and Tein coilover setups... now I'm glad I bought Teins, no joke.

Heath

iTrader: (11)

I agree it seems totally wrong to deny service. I purchased mine from a local guy but I have no clue where he bought them. I was even in contact with Zeal many many months ago inquiring about having them serviced when the time comes and he made no mention of this "policy" that may end up screwing me. He did mention it would be approx. $100 per unit for rebuild.

I suppose I just dont get it but if Endless Racing is the company what does it matter if the product I have serviced was made in Japan or the US?

Endless Work

That is a good idea. I will discuss this with the principles and see if we can change the policy. I think that's actually a great idea. If it was purchased via US authorized dealer you can be serviced at our normal rate. However, if there is no record of this coilover coming thru Endless USA pipeline there will be an additional charge?

That sounds like a good compromise right? I hope you guys do understand that gray market can literally kill a product. The company who is willing to provide tech support and info will not be able to survive because consumers are supporting the wrong vendors.

Anyways, thanks for the couple of ideas. We will most likely ammend the policy this coming week. Unless one has used our product and been able to compare to the others, you will not be able to recognize how great a product it is. There are always other brands out there. Endless/Zeal will always shoot to be the best and offer the most.

Thanks.

dis1

I am glad you guys are going to review these policies. As I said before some of these things seem to deter sales. You can preach all you want about gray market sales but when a person sees a $200 install fee or hears of warranty issues sales will suffer.

You need to find policies that cover your *** but don't create bad PR or **** customers off. Back when I bought my set of coilovers there was 1 one year warranty, no $200 fee and the price was 2028. Today there is a shaky 6 month warranty and the cost has gone up to 2200 (2400 total). Although I have received great service from the guys at Endless, if I was in the market today I would have chosen a different brand. Now that's not to say Zeal wouldn't be the right choice but given my normal decision process and the fact that I wouldn't know what I do now I would have picked something different.

Instead of a $200 install fee why not offer discounts on installs through authorized shops. (The discounts could even be absorbed by the shops given the fact that you are sending them business.) This will be an incentive for the buyer to go to a shop. Endless could also make the warranty stricter if the damage was caused by the install.

Offer a longer warranty when a shop installs the coilovers.

Create a program where used or gray market coilovers can be sent to Endless USA for inspection for a fee. After inspection the coilovers would be sent back with a 30 day warranty and the same rights to service a regular kit would have.

See how this is working? You get what you want and the customer gets what they want.

Anyway I am still happy with my coilovers but am worried about these policies. I know for a fact my comments and especially my web site has sold more than a few sets. It is people like me that help sell kits and when you implement policies that worry those people you must realize something is wrong. And please note that even if you know you are right and I am wrong it simply does not matter. The fact that these conclusions are so easy to come to is a problem. At the very least you should add the $200 to the base price and offer free installs through authorized dealers. At least this way the cost is hidden for God sakes.

lotusdrift

Sorry for bringing this back up, I just found it and it’s a great thread on something I am very concerned with recently.


I just bought a car that had ZEAL B2's on it, which I considered an important part of the purchase price. However they need to be rebuilt, so I contacted Endless USA and found out pretty much everything that was said in this thread. They denied me a rebuild because I do not have a warranty card, so I am stuck with $1600 paper weights

Basically instead making money off of me by rebuilding my coilovers and in the process keeping me happy with good service and great products; they refuse me on the principle that grey market is bad and keeping brand loyalty and good word of mouth (one of the single most important marketing strategies) isn’t worth the cost. Don’t even get me started on that 200 dollar install charge, ridiculous.

Do they not understand that they are going to lose a lot of customers because of these policies? I am an enthusiast and will be buying many many more sets of coilovers over the course of my life, but because of this first experience with Endless I highly doubt any of those sets will be ZEALS. Even more than this all of my friends will never buy a set of Zeals either, and all of the numerous message boards I am on will hear what they are doing to people through my story. Wake up Endless, its not like there aren't alternatives to your products!

I can certainly understand Endless wanting to encourage people to buy through (and not the grey market) but they are being VERY short sighted with their current policies. There were many good alternative and plausible policies posted in this thread, and probably no need to revisit them, but EndlessUSA would do VERY good to heed them.


And if anyone knows how to get them rebuilt without the help of Endless USA please PM me.

dis1

Thanks for the post. I am going to have to amend my website to reflect these poor policies. I'm sure that will help promote sales. Yea right! It is sad to see a great product being backed by such bone headed policies. I could come up with a better marketing plan in 20 minutes... but then again I am a product manager by profession. I wonder if Endless Japan knows about all of this. Maybe you should try contacting them lotusdrift.

dis1

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

You will need to email me the serial number on these coilovers. if you contact me privately I can show you how to acquire this number. Because a warranty card was not filled out they will not have warranty. however if it was purchased thru US lines of distribution then you can have them rebuilt. I will simply need to get this serial number to track down the purchasing sources.

What's sad is that i'm having to argue with you guys about why we are protecting our product. Gray market coilovers don't have service in the US period. That's something that should be expected, otherwise people would just buy them off Japan ebay ship them here and pay us to rebuild them. That still defeats the purpose as they are bypassing our legitimate dealer base.


There is a reason for such and frankly it's the only way end users might think twice about asking "vendors" if their products are legitimately imported and retain manufacturer's support. I'm frankly a little tired of the fact that when I post simple information that you have to interject with comments about your website.

This is a great product and will remain that way because of our strict policies. It allows our dealer base to have less concerns with grey market and forces end users to not look at price as the first "selling factor".

I personally handle all warranty claims and would suggest contacting me so that i may review the claim. You can email me at

sponsorship@endlessusa.com
or
sales@autornd.com

If it is gray market then there will be an additional cost to rebuild these coilovers but it can be done. Just be prepared to pay more and I hope you can understand why.

With regards to prepaid installation of coilovers, this is only on the www.endlessusa.com website. That policy is there because you should be going to your local authorized dealer for installation to honor warranty as opposed to doing it yourself. This also is here to protect the longevity and reputation of our product.

Anyways, I will pm you and sort this out. Next time you guys buy something used get an invoice for those parts.

Thanks, Rishie

I phoned endless to find out if an inquiry was made and they mentioned a Zeal B2 for S13 call came a few weeks back.