Ef-Dee

I mean stuff like carbon-metallic brake pads...

Ef-Dee

bump

djantlive

Hawk HPS is a probably the best street pads. Get them for $40 a pair at Tirerack or pegasusracing.com. They are pretty gentle on rotors, don't dust too much (close to stock), but grab harder than OEM and don't screech as much. Others such as EBC Green costs twice as much but the performance isn't that much better if at all. Hawk HP+ is more for light track use. Hawk Blue or Black are for heavier track use.

Ef-Dee

cool, thanks!

SleepR1

You'll need to define your application more clearly, as different pads perform well for one purpose, but may not be appropriate for another purpose!

Ef-Dee

I guess I'm looking for the best stopping power, doesn't matter whether it's loud or comfy, I like raw stopping power

maxcooper

When cold, or on the track?

I'll assume you want street pads, which means they have to be able to stop you when cold and not eat your rotors. Hawk HP+ will give you good performance at the expense of squealing and dusting. Hawk HPS fade too easily, so you probably don't want those. Powerterfield R4S are supposed to be decent street pads, too, but I have never tried them. EBC Green or Red might work for you, with less dusting and squealing than the HP+. PFC makes great pads, but I don't know which compounds are still available for the FD, as I know the ones that I wanted at one point got discontinued.

-Max

BigRed

that's funny.. when did sailing team start selling brake pads? check your link

SleepR1

Don't get EBC Red Stuffs. They don't stop well, and they dust like MAD!

SleepR1

For strictly street use, the Hawk HPS pads are a great value. Low dust, quiet. Just don't autocross or road race on HPS, you'll melt these pads in 10 laps (at least if you drive like I do)

jumprdude

I have and use Porterfield R4S pads on the street and am pretty happy with them. They dust a little more than stock, but absolutely no squeal, and are excellent as street pads and good as light track pads.

Another person I know is using Project Mu's brake pads on the street and he likes it, he says it takes away some of the soft pedal feel? that the Porterfield R4S pads give?

On the track I have used the Performance Friction PF93 compounds as well as the Porterfield R4s...
the PF93s are superb. Excellent grip when hot, seems to have a lot of bite, does not eat your rotors tremendously when cold (though they squeal horribly), major downside is their cost ($230+ for just the fronts!!) and they do leave some kind of residue on your rotors that supposedly helps with grip (with the pads), but causes other types of pads (like the R4S) to squeal when used with the rotor. The residue goes away after awhile when using another pad though.

The R4 pads are a lot cheaper than the PF93s... bite is not as good as the PF93s and grip isn't as high but overall quite good for hard track use. Be sure you follow their bedding procedure with any Porterfield pads, since if you don't bed them right they will fade the first time you use them hard.

Then there's the Hawk Blues... a person I know who pushes hard on the track says these are _the_best_ for hard track use, they are cheap and they seem to grip better the hotter they get. I can't argue, since he is taking it deeper into the turns than I am. The downside is that they will absolutely eat away your rotors when cold, and the brake dust (of which there is plenty) is extremely corrosive. Both the PF93s and R4s are not like that.

Ef-Dee

Thanks guys!

SleepR1

Jumprdude:

Where's your source for Portherfield R4s and PFC 93s? What are you paying for the R4s?

Ef-Dee:

I've tried Carbotech Panther and Panther Plus compounds. These are the ultimate road/track pads, but I would NOT recommend you use the Panther Plus on the road too long. The Plus compounds are used on the road to get you to the track and back, but not for daily use (too much dust, and rotor wear when cold).

The Carbotechs Panther Plus and regular Panther bite hard when the brakes are cold, with the Plus compounds getting even better when the Panther Plusses heat up. Both Panther compounds have excellent "release" characteristics for better, smoother brake-turning (known as "trail braking").

I see they've added a new Panther compound, XP...looks like Carbotech's top-of-the-line race compound. Very high friction coefficient of 0.60, and a very wide usable temp range of 200 to 1450 degrees F. This means you can slap the pads on at home, drive to the track, do your hotlapping, drive home, and swap back to your road pads. The Panther XPs will be my new track pad for this season

Here's Carbotech's weblink directing you straight to the different friction compounds they offer. If you're interested strictly in road compounds, then Panther compound is the pad for you. High friction coefficient (0.54), wide temp range (150 to 1100), low dust, and low noise. The wide temp range means they'll be stable to use for hotlapping too, but will fade more quickly then the Panther Plus or the XP compounds. The Panthers are an outstanding choice for SCCA Solo II racing.

http://www.carbotecheng.com/prod-ct-compounds.htm

SleepR1

Max,

I see the Carbotechs are the pads everyone's using at the Open Track Challenge? How do you like the Panthers? Which compound are you using?

jumprdude

It's been awhile since I bought PF93s but I believe the last time I bought them it was from Porterfield directly. I had heard the PF93 compounds were being discontinued when I bought them last, but Porterfield had a few more pairs in stock at the time and I got one. This was over a year and a half ago.

The R4 pads I get from Porterfield direct as well. I don't recall exactly how much I pay for them (I probably have the receipts stashed away at home somewhere, let me know if you want I can dig them up)... but ~$120 for the fronts.

The R4S (the street pad) is quite a lot cheaper, I believe.

Porterfield Enterprises:
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com

SleepR1

Thanks, JumprDude!

SleepR1

The Carbotech Panther XP compounds were not available for my '93 Rx7 R1, so I ordered Porterfield R4E pads instead (thanks for the contact JumpRDude!). The R4E pads are available directly from Porterfield--"Paula" was very nice . The "E" designation stands for endurance racing.

Pad numbers (and $cost) were--AP331 for the fronts ($119) and AP332 for the rears ($89). $208 for the fr/rr set. These will be my track-only pads.

The R4Es are made of the same carbon kevlar friction material as the old R4 (and R4-S, "S" for street), except the "Es" run cooler, last longer, remain fade-free longer, and are apparently easier on the brake discs. I like the ceramic heat shielding on the brake backing plates of the Porterfield pads. These help fight heat transfer to the (albiet) bigger Type RS brake calipers.

My road/autocross pads are the EBC Green Stuffs. These are also carbon kevlar material, so brake pad film transfer compatibility issues that arise from swapping from road pads, to track-only pads, then back to road pads, should be ameliorated by going with the same carbon kevlar compound materials at least in theory

Thanks to Max Cooper for reminding me about pad film transfer issues.

Hope everyone has a great time at MADS this weekend at VIR!

neo_omega

anyone try Project Mu or Endless pad?

Ef-Dee

Yeah, how are Endless pads? Are they just used in showcars and serve no real purpose? lol

SleepR1

The Endless pads were used on the Triple M Mazda FD Rx7-SP for Australia's Eastern Creek 12-hour Enduro back in 1994 (or 1995?). The white Triple M Mazda Rx7 No. 7 (driven by John Bowe) beat the Porsche 993 Carrera S Club Sports. Triple M Mazda Rx7-SPs never had to do a brake pad change, while the Porsches had to do multiple brake pad changes...

My source for this information was a video that Mazda Australia sent me. The video highlighted the Triple M Mazda Rx7-SPs' race for the win in Eastern Creek against formidable competition from Porsche's 993 Carrera S Club Sports!

neo_omega

I know Endless run Enduro but never know they are this good. But the thing is even it's good on track, it doen't make it good for daily drive.

RE Amemiya use Project Mu on their GT300 car also.

1FooknTiteFD

I used to use the porterfield R4s on the street and they were ok. For front and rear they were only like $160, but I quickly changed to the project mu b-force which are $200 for all sides. The change was well worth it as pedal control and braking power increased dramatically. People who know me know i drive my car very hard and I have never once faded these pads even when driving on thunderhill these pads have shown their worth. As far as other pads go, I hear that hawks like to eat rotors and leave a lot of dust which if gets wet can stain your wheels. I have another friend who has the EBC reds, but again, the project mu is still better because it has more pedal control and stopping power. you cna get it at www.rxecret7.com

West TX RX-7

I run EBC Greens and they work very well.

SleepR1

Have you run the EBC Green Stuffs on track...did they melt like my EBC Red Stuffs did?

neo_omega

I know where to get the project mu.